What the Cavaliers, the Knicks, and Your Best Teacher Have in Common

Michael Conner: [00:00:00] Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome to another episode of Voices for Excellence. I am your host, Dr. Michael Conner, CEO and founder of the Agile Evolutionary Group, and also co-founder of AEG Systems. And today's guest is someone I just absolutely adore in the education field. Now, I wanna bring...

Michael Conner: And, and, and, and Dr. Fernandez Rick, I wanna, I, I gotta highlight this. So I attended this year's TABSE Conference, and it's, that was in February. And the night before the actual conference started, shout out to TABSE Texas, uh, love that group. Talas, that Rick is a part of, love that group as well. Dr. Thomas, the great leadership over there.

Michael Conner: But Rick and I, we, we were in Dallas and we were having dinner And [00:01:00] Rick, and it was a bunch of us, and Rick, uh, I mean, just the knowledge that he was just unpacking, and specifically how we were talking about the use of data, how we should use data in education specifically when we think about this 22nd century lens, and then bringing that in.

Michael Conner: But what caught my attention was when Rick stated, and this was unprovoked on my end, is that every school system needs a data scientist. And I turned and looked at Rick, I'm like, "Rick, I've been saying that for, like, 10 years, and you're, like, the only other person in the world that has said that." And then we probably geeked out for, like, four straight hours there.

Michael Conner: And that was, you know... I had met Rick before, but that was my really true introduction to Dr. Rick Fernandez, and we have just been keeping in touch ever since, and this is long overdue. Dr. Fernandez is a former superintendent, has been through the trajectory in [00:02:00] education, every single type of leadership role, and now he is the chief growth officer for BlueKit Software.

Michael Conner: And so you can see now he's one of the, I like to say, one of the outliers in education that is challenging standard research, challenging standard theoretical logic models, theoretical frameworks, and bringing that in with advanced analytics and artificial intelligence. And I tell you, I've been looking forward to recording this episode because, again, not only selfishly am I bringing Rick on VFE, but also get to unpack more of the intellectual property of Dr.

Michael Conner: Rick Fernandez. So without any further ado, I would love to introduce Dr. Rick Fernandez down in the great state of Texas. Now, Doc, what do they say? Everything they do in Texas is a little bit bigger? So I know that this episode is gonna be a little bit bigger for our, our audience today. So thank you for joining us, Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez. 

Rick Fernandez: Yeah, no, uh, Michael, thank you for [00:03:00] having me. And, uh, yes, everything is a little bit bigger and, uh, we do believe we are our own country down here, so you know. We, we, uh, just see Texas as its own unique place, and I love every- everything about it. And great to, great to be here and, and talk a little shop with you, and I know you've been doing some great work, and with some districts in Texas, so hopefully we can touch on that a little bit because help is needed really everywhere around the country in terms of our public education system.

Michael Conner: I concur with you, Dr. Fernandez, and I'll tell you this, you know, to my audience, please follow Dr. Rick Fernandez on LinkedIn because it is not a highlight reel, as I like to say sometimes LinkedIn could be, but Dr. Fernandez provides some very specific targeted metrics pertaining to Texas public education, his breakdown of what districts look like as they're starting to shift to this choice model in Texas as well, um, looking at the whole education system in [00:04:00] totality in Texas.

Michael Conner: So it's not just, you know, like I said, a highlight reel within LinkedIn, but he, he brings very deliberate and informative information regarding education and the paradox that we're experiencing today. But again, Dr. Fernandez, I can't wait to touch upon that. But as a nationally recognized educational leader, everybody, ri- it, it doesn't matter where you're at, you could be in Alaska, you'd be like, "You know Dr.

Michael Conner: Rick Fernandez?" "Yeah, I worked with him."

Rick Fernandez: I don't know about Alaska. It's a little cold, a little cold up there, but I'll take it 

Michael Conner: But Rick, man, I'm telling you, anywhere I go, Dr. Rick Fernandez. And I'll wake 'em like, "Man, what?" Like, uh, Rick, you know everybody, man. I, I don't know whose worse, you or Jacob. But as a recognized national education leader, former superintendent of schools, and now deeply immersed in this ed tech vertical ecosystem, for individuals that don't know who you are and the work and the legacy work that you have contribute in education, what song describes your [00:05:00] leadership signature in education today?

Rick Fernandez: What song? That's a, a tough one. Uh, maybe, maybe like The Rolling Stones is, is probably what I think about in, in terms of y- there's so many variables, and the variables have changed so rapidly within the last, we'll take the COVID era, so during COVID and then after the fact. And all of the hits that public ed is taking, and some, you know, self-inflicted, right?

Rick Fernandez: There's a lot of our, our pain that has s- been self-inflicted, and we all are aware that systems don't move very rapidly. And so, you know, I like to think of it as, as like may- maybe AC/DC, like Back in Black, right? We gotta get some of our, our, our juice back and, and quit hanging our heads and start to break down why, why we have the barriers, but what are the root causes?

Rick Fernandez: And the only way to really look at that [00:06:00] when you have so many different variables is you gotta have the correct data systems, and you have to have all of the data, not piecemeal. Because you can't, you can't do anything with piecemeal data. And, and it's why I believe we, we get the trends of a little bit of progress, and then we flatline, and then we'll dip, and then we get a little bit more progress, and then...

Rick Fernandez: So there's not a real trajectory of steady growth that I've been able to see really across the country. And we can fix that. We, we, we truly can fix that. We have the tools now that, that enable us to get a better perspective on what we need to do, how we need to do it, and where our n- resources need to be delivered 

Michael Conner: I love Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez how you stated, right, you're, you talked about the Rolling Stones, right? And the complexity and the reactivity of change within the variables of the operating model. Very intentional as you stated that, right? Specifically during that time in COVID, that's why I created that time ecology or ecological [00:07:00] model that shows BC stage before COVID, during COVID, which was an immediate disruption that we had to respond to, and now seven years into the AC stage of education, which I'm calling AC 2035, which we know that artificial intelligence, digital reimagination is gonna be standardized within the operating model by that time, 2035.

Michael Conner: But you talked about this, right? Root causes versus symptoms. And in order for us, and I like the residual of how you connected that, in order for us to really get to the level of understanding the complexities within, that are embedded within these variables, you have to do RCAs, root cause analysis. But the alignment, Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez, and this is what we talked about in Dallas, is that you have to have the data infrastructure and the architecture in order to do that real time analysis to continuously to ask those [00:08:00] essential questions around what are some of those systemic root causes that we're trying to dismantle. Right now, we talked about it, Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez, um, we're just only addressing symptoms, and we're just putting band-aids that needs over a wound that needs stitches, right, with that. But I'm, we're gonna go much more deeper into that with regards to the necessary data systems and architecture to be able to now make those systemic changes so that now it's sustained because we're addressing the root cause.

Michael Conner: But I want you, Dr. Fernandez, to put your superintendent executive leadership hat back on, right? And when you think about this leadership work in your role as a district leader or district leaders currently, how did you design and transform standard models, right? Because knowing your work intimately, Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez, you were a true systems disruptor in the BC stage of education, right? [00:09:00] I always say that you and I, Dr. Fernandez, we didn't become cool until the DC stage of education, and now everybody's like, "Hey, Dr. Fernandez, Dr. Conner in the AC stage." But in the BC stage, we were anomalies, right? We were outliers, and people thought we were crazy But how did you sustain and transform standard models to be future-driven and future-ready for what I'm calling the AC 2035 economy?

Michael Conner: And then two, to couple that, how did you shift mindsets to focus on global readiness for students in lieu of this, what I like to say, linear emphasis on accountability metrics? 

Rick Fernandez: You know, that's a great question. And I, I, I don't typically, you know, toot my horn or tout anything, but w- I do think one of the skillsets that I have is k- looking around the corners and, and predicting, seeing some things that are typically not common knowledge or, or s- not something that educators typically focus on.

Rick Fernandez: And [00:10:00] taking that piece of information, that data, and then applying that to what is coming for, for the system. And it all starts with some of the things that are, are really common sense but have been taboo, and I'll give you a prime example, right? So, y- you know, districts all across the world have tried to figure out, how do we improve student outcomes?

Rick Fernandez: Is it, is it a curriculum thing? Is it a, a, a technology thing? Is it a class size thing? And the reality of it is, is if you look at sports, if you look at any fine arts, if you look at any skillset that you're trying to achieve, it's time and practice and coaching and feedback. And it is the, the regularity and the cadence of that, um, has to be at a very high level, and the only way to do that is being in those classrooms.

Rick Fernandez: And 'cause you... Again, you would not expect anybody that's coaching your son, they go to practice and you, you watch practice for a week, and throughout the [00:11:00] week the coach says nothing to the team, doesn't, doesn't give any type of feedback, no, no skill work, nothing, and then the game's on Saturday, and we expect this, you know, the, this, the kids to be able to play, you know, a game of basketball and be successful at.

Rick Fernandez: Like, that just doesn't happen. We, we, but we don't really apply that understanding into the classroom because it's uncomfortable or because, well, you know, you gotta give teachers autonomy. Yes, you, teachers can have autonomy, but we do have to have a collective agreement that everybody is responsible for improving continuously, right?

Rick Fernandez: Because with all of the variables that we have, if you don't do that, if you don't have the mindset of this is just kind of the culture that, that, that we have to have in order to be successful, then you don't improve. Because everything else could be right. Curriculum could be perfect. The tech- could be the best technology.

Rick Fernandez: Your PLC work could be great, whatever. But if you're not seeing instruction in practice and not helping people, you know, improve, but, but you as, [00:12:00] as either an evaluator, a coach, mentor, whatever, you're not improving your craft alongside that, how, how do people grow, right? H- 'Cause you don't know, you don't know.

Rick Fernandez: You're not seeing it. You, you gotta see it through both lenses so that there's, like, a, a, a system of continuous improvement. So that's not a, you know, that's not a, like, a, some type of, you know, equation that we had to figure out. It's just, it's right in front of us, and yet we don't really ta- address that like we should until now, you know, when, when, when things are the worst and kids are struggling so bad and parents are so upset and the state's gonna come in and take over your district.

Rick Fernandez: Now all of a sudden there's the urgency for that. And just those little shifts of like what's the baseline things that we could do immediately. So building a standard of if we have a continuous improvement model that we adhere to, and that's sacred and everything is built around that, then that's a starting point, right?

Rick Fernandez: And now We've got that [00:13:00] in place, we've got that culture, and now we have the ability with, with all the technology, we've got the ability to see all the data sets in real time and adapt in real time. Just like you would call an audible at a football game, now we can start calling audibles, teachers can call audibles in the classroom.

Rick Fernandez: And if they get up to the line and they don't like what they see, that's not working out, there's, there's something gonna go wrong, you know, hey, in real time, let's, let's pivot. And we've really never had that ability to do that. So anybody that's ever said that there's been personalized learning going on, I would take issue with that, because we haven't had the capability to ever do that in the moment.

Rick Fernandez: We've tried and, uh, but there's just, there just wasn't the systems to do that. And so the continuous improvement alongside that, that data and that, that using that data in real time and just getting into the habit of, man, I've got it at my fingertips and, and I'm gonna apply that to the maximum extent I, I can [00:14:00] every single class, every period, every day, I think we'll see some miraculous transformation.

Rick Fernandez: Or not miraculous, but some, some transformation that we haven't ever experienced in, in public ed. 

Michael Conner: Yeah. And Dr. Fernandez, going back to your response the, at the outset, when you stated that you look at your system very differently and you were predicting to my audience... The reason why I love Dr. Fernandez, Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez in the BC stage of education was do- was underscoring predictive analytics in a real time manner to be able to create this adaptive model with the variables that he's talking about in education. Again, this is where, you know, I know in Rick's work, you know, when he was a superintendent, I was like, "Wow," you know?

Michael Conner: The way that he's designing his system, it was all underscored with predictive analytics as well as descriptive analytics as well, kind of a combination, but it was such an outlier. But I loved how you talked about, and you used the football [00:15:00] analogy, the coach analogy, time practice and feedback. But I wanna ask a sub question, Dr.

Michael Conner: Fernandez, for clarity level set with my audience, because I think these are two very foundational phrases that you highlighted within your response. One, can you define for a level setting pur- for level setting purposes for my audiens- my audience, what a system of continuous improvement look like? And then two, I want you to couple that by defining what is a continuous improvement model.

Michael Conner: And Dr. Fernandez, the reason I want you to do that is because it is so Important. I call it an educational imperative now that we create that system or the systems of continuous improvement, and then defining your continuous improvement model and have this embedded layer of your strategic operating plan, your school [00:16:00] improvement plan, your instructional framework that works in reciprocity with your continuous improvement model.

Michael Conner: But I want my audience to really unpack your IP with regards to that. 

Rick Fernandez: I mean, I, I've always seen continuous improvement is synonymous with your culture. It's, it's what we do, the work that we do every single day, right? And so how we go about the work and how we agree to improve, and that model in practice has to be very specific and spelled out.

Rick Fernandez: And the continuous improvement is a byproduct of the culture that we have, the work that we do, and all of the systems built around to facilitate that work, and I'll give you an example. Right? So, uh, when you have administrators that are, that are trying to help teachers improve their instructional practice, but the, the whirlwind of, of a day can come in and you have an upset parent, or y- you have a situation with a student, or you have a, a, a board member [00:17:00] situation, or there's a fire drill.

Rick Fernandez: All of those things are gonna always be present. But if you build your system where all of your administrative assistants know that here is the only reason that you interrupt me when I'm in instructional rounds with, or with teachers, right? And, and one of the other administrators takes over my, my grade level, or my alpha split, or whatever it is, and you design everything around what you hold dear.

Rick Fernandez: And if you don't do that, and if everybody doesn't know from, from your, your administrative assistants to all of your, your teachers, w- they, they know you're in classes, a- and all of that is transparent, right? So the, the, the schedules, my, my, my calendar, they can see where I am every single day. Because that level not only gives them line of sight into, "Hey, we're seriously w- we're gonna improve.

Rick Fernandez: Like, you're gonna be coached. I'm gonna be coached." That is how we do business, so the continuous improvement is just It [00:18:00] needs to be the culture that you have, um, and how you do the work and what you hold sacred in terms of student outcomes and, and in terms of your, your staff outcomes. Because we're always looking at the, the student outcomes, that's great, but your staff has to grow, and they have to, to understand that that's a part of the, the role.

Rick Fernandez: But when they do grow, man, your retention goes up. Eh, you know, they get better. They can see it. They can feel it. It's... They feel like a team of like, man, we're all working, getting better. We're all doing this, this early morning workout together, right? Like when you g- you got a buddy that goes to the gym with you, there's accountability, and you, you help and support each other.

Rick Fernandez: And, and it's a, it's a feeling of collective, like, hey, we're collectively accountable. And when somebody's not pulling their weight, everybody has to look over there and say, "Hey, you gotta get together." So I really do believe it is the ability to come together, and whatever there is, uh, your sacred, whatever you're holding sacred, [00:19:00] putting in the system that- that's driving towards that goal.

Rick Fernandez: And everything, the money, the, the, your, your board, your system that you have at your, at your campuses, what you talk about in your meetings, all of that comes first, right? All of that comes first. And everything else has to be done kind of in an ancillary manner, meaning we'll, we'll do these things, absolutely run the district, the business of the district, but 80% of our time are about this, this, this one thing, right?

Rick Fernandez: Getting better, instructional practice, instructional practice, instructional practice. And I, I don't know how else to, to move schools other than just really getting good at, at helping each other improve. 

Michael Conner: Yeah. Yeah. Great answer, Dr. Fernandez. One of my key takeaways, right, or resonating themes, uh, you stated is about culture, right?

Michael Conner: And I think that we look at, or sometimes we look at or even misconstrue continuous [00:20:00] improvement and even developing that model where it acts in the synonymous sense where you're saying that it's synonymous. It has to be synonymous, embedded in the culture. But Rick, a- and I alluded to it earlier, the, at our dinner with the conversation where we were talking about, you know, districts or learning organizations moving to incorporating data science, data scientists, also looking at how we can create data infrastructure and architecture within our learning organizations where now we're using real-time metrics so that we're agile and adaptive.

Michael Conner: But when you think about this, right, those are outlier practices. I always like to say that, Rick, you know, education, because of the construct and how we design our data architecture and how we design our infrastructures, it only allows exactitude analyses. We only can get to that symptom level where we have to create architecture [00:21:00] where it facilitates inexactitude analyses, where now we're looking at academic matrix or, sorry, academic metrics and operational metrics to define how we move the system forward, or how we're looking at outlier data together, concatenate it, concatenate it.

Michael Conner: I apologize, Dr. Fernandez, for using that big word, but that's the only way to describe how we move to this level of getting to the root cause. But it's not standardized. How do we make this outlier practice of using data standardized so we can sustain the systems that we wanna create for continuous improvement?

Rick Fernandez: Well, I think there has to be some awareness of What are the data sets that matter and what are the data sets that are, that are blind spots and always have been blind spots? And I think you have to do that by asking some of the tough questions and, and [00:22:00] without doing it kind of in a tacky way, call out some of those things with, with colleagues.

Rick Fernandez: And I'll give you a prime example. So if you were to ask, uh, you know, any superintendent around the country or, or ask their, "Hey, talk to your principals, who is your absolute best teacher on your campus?" Right? They'll, they'll, they'll tell you a name, but when you boil it down as to, okay, why did you believe that?

Rick Fernandez: What are the, the, the facts, the, the data sets that tell you that? You're gonna get a wide variety of answers, right? Maybe it's, you know, accountability test, state testing. Maybe it's ACT, SAT. Maybe it's, you know, they're above, you know, grade level with, with their Lexile, their re- their literacy. Who knows?

Rick Fernandez: But dialing in, in s- as to why students improve, and is it a result of the teacher? Is it a result of a system? How do you really dial in on that? Um, so first you gotta figure out Why the [00:23:00] best are the best, and is there, is there a common denominator there? I would argue that there, there are several common denominators with that, but nobody's really looking at it in a holistic manner to say, "Okay, if we put this teacher in a different setting, in a different grade level," what have you, they are still going to perform at a very high level.

Rick Fernandez: And, and again, I'll go back to the sports analogy. You know, some people on certain teams, they, they look like a superstar, right? They, they got all the points, but, but they're not winning. The team isn't winning. There's... I- it's dysfunctional. This, this person's a standout, and then you put them in a different setting, and they, they can't perform or they underperform.

Rick Fernandez: So truly really dialing in is like, do you know who your best teachers are and, and why they are the best? What are the things that they do that others aren't doing, right? Is it a, is it on the relationship side, the instructional side? Is it, is it the system that they have where kids are so dialed in, it's like, "Well, I know w- if I go to Ms.

Rick Fernandez: Smith's classes, I gotta do this, this and this," and it's, it's the rhythm of it. Um, [00:24:00] trying to figure out what that is, and then holding that a- as a standard of these are the things that we're gonna... we want all teachers to do. And I, I don't know that if you asked that question, there would be a lot of people that could tell you that with any degree of specificity.

Rick Fernandez: So I, I think that's, that's one piece of it, is not, we don't really know why our best are, are our best. Or we will say somebody's the best, but when you really dial into the data, does it, does that bear out, right? Are, are we on track with that? Or are they perceived the best because of longevity or the kids love them, or th- they're great, they're great employees, right?

Rick Fernandez: We've all had great employees, but might not necessarily be the best at the practice, at the instructional practice that they're delivering to students. So I think we've gotta figure out what that is. And then on the other side of, like, we, we spend so much time with student attendance, right? But how big of an [00:25:00] impact is teacher attendance on those same students?

Rick Fernandez: That never goes into the equation. 

Michael Conner: Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. That, that's so important, Doc, uh, Doc- Dr. Fernandez, you're giving me agita right now, right? Because, a- and please continue, but I just wanted to state this, that, you know, when I was doing some modeling exercises when I was a superintendent, and I always used to bring in teacher attendance data within the academic data and modeling that and looking for specific correlations, uh, people don't realize that teacher attendance impacts achievement, and you can even break it down by the months of, okay, if you see an average of X, you can see a steady, a steadily decline in your students for that month.

Michael Conner: But then all of a sudden when teacher attendance is near [00:26:00] perfect, now you see this trajectory of going up. Cor- linear, linear regressions, my friend. But I wanna, I wanna bring this up to you because as you were talking about this best teacher analogy, and I wanna ask you this, Dr. Fernandez, and I'm bringing sports into this, okay?

Michael Conner: The whole Jaylen Brown issue, Cleveland Cavaliers coach, when you look at Jaylen Brown analytics- You wouldn't wanna pick him up on your team. And I'm talking about diverse measures, measures that, you know, the normal person wouldn't even take into consideration, you know, with regards to, you know, being on the court.

Michael Conner: All, all these other measures that proves that Jaylen Brown actually doesn't... How can I say this? It, it, you could get more wins with Jaylen Brown off the court. But to the [00:27:00] eye, 28, averaging 28 points, seven rebounds, Finals MVP, champion, carried his team, sixth in the NBA MVP voting. But yet, analytics describe him as no more than the fourth or fifth best player on the team, which is true.

Michael Conner: The Cleveland Cavaliers coach is down 0-3 against the Knicks, and then he's saying analytically we're, we're, we're beating the Knicks 3-0. In reality, he's right. Analyt- from an analytics standpoint, they were better than us in every category, but we wound up sweeping the Cavs. Let's think about that from a teacher.

Michael Conner: A teacher's getting the, they beloved getting the data, but analytically, if you break it down, is not, it, it, it could improve exponentially. H- help me with that dichotomy, right? Because [00:28:00] we're gonna see more of, e- we're seeing it in sports now Natural progression is going to be in education, right? How do we deal with that?

Rick Fernandez: Yep. And so that's a great parallel there. I would tell you that if I were looking to go find the best of the best in, in any data s- any- anywhere, one of the places I would look would be sports. Because not only do they have some of the top minds, but there's so much money at stake, so there is a, a huge urgency to get things right.

Rick Fernandez: And so they look at everything kind of interwoven to see, all right, which player at which price best complements the rest of the players, right? So they're looking like I believe we should be looking at, at education. They're not leaving anything to chance. They're, they're... and, and they're putting it all together to say, "This is where we need to go."

Rick Fernandez: You bring up the Spurs. There's one thing that really can't be calculated with just the raw [00:29:00] numbers, and that is the coaching and an experience component of in this moment when we can't have A, B, or C happen, have our, have our players been taught well enough? Do... Are we prepared for a moment that, that is coming that we have not seen before, right?

Rick Fernandez: So the adaptability and the preparation for something that hasn't happened, if that makes sense, because all of those guys on the Spurs were new to that moment, including the coach. And, uh, the, the, the, the analysis is absolutely correct. Like, they beat the Knicks for almost 80, 90% of the entire series, right?

Rick Fernandez: But it's, it's during that crunch time where things get tight and pressure ramps up and there's not... They, they clearly had not discussed it, worked through it, and, and, and adapted when they needed to because the... none of them had been in that moment. [00:30:00] Um, so seeing a moment and coaching for a moment, even though it has not been experienced, it's hard.

Rick Fernandez: It's a hard thing to do because people are, "Why are we doing this? We, we, we don't need to... You're, you're trying to prepare us for something that may not happen." So that forecasting ability in analytics is hugely, hugely needed in terms of education because for the most part- We can, to some degree of certainty, predict if something goes wrong, these are probably the things that will go wrong, and, and disrupt our day, disrupt our district, disrupt our system, right?

Rick Fernandez: So we do get enough of a, of a inkling of we, we need to be able to account for these things, even if we've never experienced it. Vouchers, right? Even if we never experienced it, there's enough data and information that other people have that we can say, should this come at a federal level, which I believe it will, um, what...

Rick Fernandez: how would that impact us? But you gotta, you gotta have those [00:31:00] conversations before the event happens. You gotta coach it, you gotta prepare before it happens, before you get in the fourth quarter with a bunch of rookies and guys that haven't been to the, to the NBA championship. If that- that's the first time they're seeing it, then they're just reacting however they would normally react.

Rick Fernandez: Whether, whether it's less urgency, whether it's n- you know, not doing the right thing, not adapting or, or, or pressing too much, and this is kind of what San Antonio did. Like, you lose by 30, you know, you had to lose a 30-point lead, all you had to do was just not shoot as many threes the second half, which is not a big adaptation.

Rick Fernandez: It's like, "All right, guys," like, "Look, let's, let's dribble the ball a little bit more, take some, some, some time off the clock before we shoot." 

Michael Conner: As a, as a Knick fan, Rick, I, I didn't complain. 

Rick Fernandez: Oh, no. No, and I lo- look, I, you know, I love both teams. I, I, I thought that both teams played well, but you could see, you know, a- almost feel the lack of [00:32:00] we don't know what to do in this moment, and so we revert, we revert to what, what we, what we believe is the right thing, but it, it, in turn, it's not the right thing.

Rick Fernandez: And so I g- it gives a chance for somebody to come in. So s- like, vouchers right now, it's a whole lot of competition, and if we don't accept that there's now competition where we've never had any, and we wait till it's, like, live and on the ground, it's kind of what we're experiencing here in Texas is, like, everybody's like, "Oh, no, I didn't realize I was gonna lose this many kids to, to, to private school vouchers."

Rick Fernandez: Well, yeah, ki- you should've been able to see the writings on the wall and- We just, we just ignore it to some degree, if that makes sense. 

Michael Conner: Yeah, yeah. And Rick, I love that, as you stated that, because I was speaking to a few people and they were like, "You know, the, the Spurs, you know, should've won the series.

Michael Conner: They're a better team." And you know, as a Knick fan, I, I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't acknowledge that, right? But I said, "What we have [00:33:00] to take into a fact-- we have to take into a factor that we haven't highlighted this," and this was before the series. I was like, "Three of your top players are three years or less in the NBA that a- average 21 years and younger."

Michael Conner: I was like, "You have a team that has multiple people that played in the Eastern Conference Finals and played in some very, very big games." I was like, "That is gonna be a factor for this series." And you're right, it was. But w- I loved how you analyzed the dec- uh, decision tree analysis forecasting. But as you stated at the outset was the question, what are the data sets that matter?

Michael Conner: I wanna move into the whole voucher system in Texas, because you've been doing a lot of great analysis providing a lot of high level implications on how it can hurt districts or help districts or w- you know, however you wanna take it from that stance. But, you know, when you think about [00:34:00] this from a national, broader sense, the implications that, you know, can lead to this voucher system across the country, Texas is, Texas and Florida are the two states that people are looking at.

Michael Conner: Now, Rick, this was another segment of our, you know, dinner, dinner meetup that we had, and, you know, and what I say this, it presents a level of contention, you know, specifically to public school educators. I said that, you know, I have no issue with a market-based reform, market-based or innovation-based competition.

Michael Conner: I have no issues with that. You know, i- i- in any other industry, there's that level of competition. Rick, if you open up an ice cream parlor right across the street from my ice cream parlor, guess what? I gotta change my products or enhance my products so that the customer, the client, can come to me in lieu of your ice cream parlor.

Michael Conner: I don't see anything wrong with that when we talking about a kid's education, where [00:35:00] that now there's that level of market-based competition, innovation-based competition, so that for the client, the student, the most important customer, who is our families and our, and our students. So given the fiscal implications that you have highlighted across the country pertaining to districts in Texas, what are the operational pivots needed in this era of education choice?

Rick Fernandez: I mean, first and foremost is that districts have to wake up and realize, like, we're, we are in the sales game, right? We have clients, and our clients have options and, and a lot more options than they've ever had. And so to remain competitive, if we don't understand what our clients are seeking and how to deliver whatever it is that they're seeking in a, in a timely enough manner, then our, our system will cease to exist, right?

Rick Fernandez: So [00:36:00] that has to be kind of the foremost, like, we, we have to do things differently, and we have to be able to compete, and all of the things that we have been holding onto for whatever reason, whether it's le- legacy programming, whether it's, you know, certain systems that don't necessarily allow for a lot of flexibility within scheduling.

Rick Fernandez: Like, if we hold that to, to-- if we go die on that hill, you will continue to hemorrhage students and families for that matter. So the first thing is just the acknowledgement is like, we can't do this any longer like this. And then the, the other thing is, like, what-- Answer this one question What does our district provide that no other district around us, no competition, whether it be my pub- my public school colleague down the street, or the charters around me, the privates around me, what can we offer that they cannot offer?

Rick Fernandez: And if we can't answer that question, we need to start building something a- a- and to, to have some [00:37:00] differentiation in a very strategic manner about what we offer students, right? And the, my, my frustration with kind of the lack of that thinking is there's never been a better time to offer those things, because now we've got a lot of techno- uh, you know, technological advances that can really help our, our programming and our, and our classes and our dual credit like really blossom.

Rick Fernandez: You've got industry wanting to pour into, to education more so than, than it ever has. And, and the industry is telling us, "Here are the jobs. Here's what, what, you know, what's coming and what's kind of going away. Here's what the struggle is gonna be if your kids don't have these skills or that skills." I mean, industry has pretty much said, like, "We're not too concerned with your pedigree, with your, your college pedigree.

Rick Fernandez: We're more concerned with I need this, can you do this, and can you do it at a high level consistently? And if you can do that, I've got quite a bit of money for you." And again, going back to the, the sports analogies, like some of these, these entry level [00:38:00] positions, particularly in the AI field, are paying like rookie salaries if you were looking at football or basketball or, or MLB, and that's no joke.

Rick Fernandez: Big time dollars, right? Um, and it's gonna be the age of entrepreneurship and innovation and what I'm... And that's gonna be at an individual level. So if I were a district, I would be looking at programming, I would be looking at flexibility in scheduling, I would be looking at my, my industry partners, like bringing them into a degree that we never have.

Rick Fernandez: I would be making sure that my parents, and through all the means that we have available to us, are, are very aware of the things we're doing to make sure your kids, should they attend my district, are gonna have, they're gonna have something unique that you can't get anywhere else. And oh, by the way, our, our, our instruction's gonna be excellent too, but we're gonna change because [00:39:00] we see what the future's c- that, that future's coming, right?

Rick Fernandez: So we think of the four, you know, the four core, right? If you really look at what's coming, we probably should be teaching certain technical entrepreneurship skills as core. I would even argue AI would, would needs to be a part of a, kind of a, a core language if you will, right? Not seen as a, as a, a program or a CTE or an enhancement.

Rick Fernandez: It's, it needs to be a part of this is, you can't really do anything without this. And your reading, your math, all of those things are taught through the lens of what, what do we need to be able to do? What are the skills that are needed? What type of critical thinking? How do I become an, an entrepreneurial thinker?

Rick Fernandez: Because I'm gonna have to be at the, uh, my job, my job path is not gonna be one, one company for 25 years and retire or 30 years and retire. It's gonna be 20 different jobs [00:40:00] with 20 different people, some part-time, some full-time, some running my own thing, some having to pivot because something has changed so rapidly, and I've gotta continue continuously to, to innovate for my own behalf, right?

Rick Fernandez: And that's all problem-solving skills. That's all that is, is problem-solving skills, and there's no reason we couldn't like ha- have a, of a, a absolutely fantastic literacy component that helps kids read and, and learn and, and problem solve or, or mathematical components with, with how we do things. And so I think operationally we, we really need to look, it's like, what do you want your kids to be able to do?

Rick Fernandez: And all parents usually say is like, "I want them to do better than me. I want them to be able to, you know, make a great living, have a great life, have, ha- have the type of life that they, that they dream about." Okay, if that's what you want, and here's what, here's what's the, the workforce is saying is needed and what's valuable, and it's only gonna accelerate, then why are we doing this?

Rick Fernandez: You know? And we, we gotta start [00:41:00] with those tough questions. And then s- and then, you know, we can't spend two years to figure that out. Like, I know you do a lot of wo- you do a lot of work with, with strategic planning, and we're of the same mind. It's like, look, at the very least, I need we... I need to be here every year to, we gotta update this thing because it's, it's a continuous improvement plan.

Rick Fernandez: It's just tweak, tweak, tweak, tweak. It's, it will forever be tweaked, right? 

Michael Conner: Absolutely. Rick, I, I, I, love you, brother. I, I love you. Thank you. I just love, to my audience, I selfishly just text Rick and say, "Rick, can we meet?" And Rick will be like, and Rick, Rick, Rick has never said no, because nine times out of 10, y- we, we add the, we add the business element of it.

Michael Conner: But as they say, iron sharpens iron. I just, I'm like, "All right, I need, I, I need my fix." So I'm like, "Rick, can we meet?" And Rick will be like, "Yeah, sure." And then we're like 50 minutes into it, and we're just geeking out like, "Oh, okay, Rick, this is why we meet." But I love that. 

Rick Fernandez: I've al- you know I gotta bring my thesaurus when, when I, when I meet with you though, right?

Rick Fernandez: 'Cause you, you always drop some stuff like, man, I feel [00:42:00] like I, I read all the time. I say, "I ain't never heard of that word, and I gotta check. I gotta check to make sure I know what that means." 

Michael Conner: Oh, I love my man, Rick. But Rick, what I love about this, right, and you, you stated it explicitly and implicitly, that industry provides our strategy around design.

Michael Conner: And you just, I, it, it, it, and I say that to everybody. I'm like, we have to know what the industry's, what is going on in the economy, and then now we look at how we can apply these design principles in alignment to what we're seeing in the economic demand. I love it. You talked about programming, flexibility, and scheduling.

Michael Conner: Being strategic with industry partners, creating parent awareness about these options, and then something that I hope will become ubiquitous wi- within time is that AI is not independent, [00:43:00] you know, vertical, where now it's just standardized and a part of the common language within education. And I wanna be able to now kind of go into that, right, where AI becomes the common language and, or the core language, as you stated.

Michael Conner: And that where, that's where distinctively is arrival AI versus adoption AI. Arrival AI is that disruptor where now it just becomes naturalized within the learning organization and within the variables of the operating model. But how should leaders, Dr. Fernandez, you- you've been doing this, advising companies, advising founders, advising superintendents, chief academic officers, all up and down the continuum.

Michael Conner: But how should leaders take a systems approach with design so it purposely and intentionally utilizes this arrival AI method [00:44:00] of now the core language is AI in every system, every operational node, and instructional strategy framework, strategic operating plan in that learning organization? 

Rick Fernandez: Yeah, that, I mean, that's critical to build a, a system that can function, right?

Rick Fernandez: And you know this as a superintendent. The, the first part of that is getting your stakeholders in, in your community and your school board not only on board, but really, really educated as to why it even matters. You know, I spend a lot of time with boards talking about the future of work, right? And it's not my, you know...

Rick Fernandez: Yes, it is my, also my opinion and my belief, but it's, I don't, I don't, you know, couch it as that. It's more about, here are the facts, here's what industry is telling us that is coming. And s- level setting with, look, we can... I, I get it, right? I've got three kids of my own. I go back, I vacillate between, like, screen time and how much tech versus get your butt outside and play.

Rick Fernandez: And, and while [00:45:00] we're, we wrestle with all that, like- The fact of the matter is, is that the skills that they need, if we abstain from tech, if we abstain from AI, if we abstain from things that, that they're gonna have to ha- absolutely have when they get into the workforce, is that what's in the best interest for kids?

Rick Fernandez: And so I think you gotta present the facts of if our goal is to... At the, at the very base level, when kids leave us, I used to say this as a high school principal, and they, you know, "What's your vision like?" I, I don't know anything about that. When kids leave, uh, the, my high school, I need them to have options, right?

Rick Fernandez: I need them to have options. And that option could be a bunch of different things, but they've gotta have some viability for whatever they wanna do. So at the baseline level, it's like you want kids to be employable and, and, and be good citizens and, and have an opportunity to go live the American dream.

Rick Fernandez: And how do you do that if we abstain from tech, right? So kind of building that, that case of what's gonna be our, our belief system for the community and the school district and, and, and [00:46:00] the school board and, and everybody that's gonna be impacted by anything that we do instructionally or programmatically or systematically i- in regards to AI.

Rick Fernandez: Once you kind of have that consensus, and then you've gotta know your people, and you've gotta understand with anything, there's always gonna be a percentage of early adopters, a percentage of people that will resist change until, you know, the world ends, and then the, the big piece in the middle that you've gotta get them up to speed.

Rick Fernandez: The great thing about, in, in my opinion, about artificial intelligence is this is not a, a curriculum. It's not something that is a, a new training. It, it's more of they're using it in their daily lives, right? Even the people that are resisting, they're using it on their phone, they're using it how... when they shop.

Rick Fernandez: They're using it in their cars now that they probably don't recognize. So there's enough usability that's currently happening in people's day-to-day lives that we shouldn't have the, the amount of, you [00:47:00] know, learning curve to a degree or, or adoption phobia to a degree because they're already using it. Now, how we, how we construct the system with the guardrails of, of all of the data security, what tools are we gonna hold sacred, now that's the process that you've gotta go through and decide, you know, with your teams of, like, what are we gonna...

Rick Fernandez: There's, there's 30 million tools. What are the tools that we're gonna leverage? How do we leverage them, and to what effect for our students? And, and that's just the staff, right? Most, most districts haven't really gotten into what does this mean for, for our kids, because the staff are struggling a little bit with, like, where does, where do we fit in all this?

Rick Fernandez: But then when you get to the student level, that's a whole nother set of questions, because your student level questions are, okay, if the students have access to virtually any, any answer for anything, do the answers matter anymore? [00:48:00] 'Cause we've always asked the students, like, "What's the answer?" Like, show me, show your work, show the answer.

Rick Fernandez: SAT, ACT, provide the answer. So now we probably need to be thinking, well, it's not the answer. We've gotta help them understand and get to the right question in the most efficient way. Which if we're really looking to build problem-solving skills, I think that would be a great lead in. Because constructing the right questions, you call them prompts, call them whatever, but that's gonna be critical in their ability to compete.

Rick Fernandez: Because if you all have cell phones and you can all get the same answer, well, then, okay, how do I take this, this, this thing that I need to create, this problem, and start asking the questions to build out my, my action plan to solve, right? 'Cause that's kind of how people are using it to a degree that, you know, just, just, just the everyday person is like, I'll ask a bunch of questions, get it kind of close.

Rick Fernandez: Ah, that kind of w- oh, maybe I can create something with it. Now I can [00:49:00] make a presentation with it. And that's kind of that baseline use, and our students will be doing the same thing, are doing the same thing, right? But that question, right? That, that, that, that hi- you know, that, that scientific method, what a great way to, to inject that into our students.

Rick Fernandez: But we've gotta solve for the adults first, and then we've gotta really look at, all right, what does this mean for instruction? Are we... Are they cheating? Are they doing what we all do in e- you know, in the adult world? It's like, I don't know. Let me, let me, let me go find who's somebody that does know. Um, you got...

Rick Fernandez: That system is, is gonna be very complicated, 'cause it's a lot of change, and it's a lot of things that we've never had to, to touch. But you all let your business community drive the why, right? Let your, your foundation be about we want outcomes for students. We want options for students. Our business community, our, our [00:50:00] national and global community is telling us, "These are the options.

Rick Fernandez: These are the skills that are needed. If you want your, your child to be employable and successful, they probably need to be doing something in this realm." And that, that is the base. And I don't know how people can really argue unless they don't believe in, you know, like, oh, this is just a fad, or, you know.

Rick Fernandez: Like, people tell me all the time, it's like, "Well, you really think robots?" I was like, "Yes. Yes. By the end of this year, like, Tesla is ramping up now for mass production of their Optimus Robot." Like, y- you, 20- t- you're thinkin' 2035, 2040? No. No. That, that's before 2030 where you'll have robots in car rider lines And that's crazy to think about.

Rick Fernandez: Or you'll have kids being dropped off in autonomous vehicles where the kid's just sitting there in the passenger seat, and you open the door for car rider line, and you're like, "Hey, man." What, like, that's, that's coming. Like- 

Michael Conner: Absolutely 

Rick Fernandez: So w- what do we do with it, you know? 

Michael Conner: Absolutely. It, it, we, Rick, I, I, I [00:51:00] always say this: We can't keep kicking the can down the road.

Michael Conner: That's essentially, you know, what we're doing. I wanna highlight something when you talk about the future of work, and how students are using some type of intelligence system in their life. In Generation Alpha, your kids' age, my sons' age, 86% of them are using artificial intelligence five times or more during the day.

Michael Conner: That's at the bare minimum, five times, 86%. So if we think about that, Generation Alpha, and I love your quote, "Let the business community drive the why," this is where now we have to have this why of the necessary that we need to be able to look at the model differently, to be able to look at education d- uh, differently, specifically undergirded by that statement, the future of work.

Michael Conner: I loved how you talk about [00:52:00] problem-solving with AI, and that is one of the indicators within my 22nd Century Systems Learner framework, where now it's not just in this analogous sense of problem-solving, but how do we now teach kids to problem-solve with AI, right? And again, you know, I, I always like to, you know, I, I challenge, you know, leaders, I challenge executive-level leaders, right?

Michael Conner: Because we have this perseveration, we like to talk about different tools. But before we even get to the tools, we have to be able to align the various intelligent systems- To the actual variables in our operating model, and to put that in simplistic language for my audience, we have to know what type of AI systems that we want in our classrooms or at the central office level before we even [00:53:00] get to identifying what the tools are in alignment to our strategy.

Michael Conner: That is why I created the intelligence systems landscape, and it identifies six different intelligence systems that can be aligned to the education model. Well-stated, and, and I love this, business community is driving the why, and this whole cheating aspect of it, Stanford University, you know, has a good study out there that shows that kids aren't cheating more than they were in the BC of education.

Michael Conner: So that question, are kids cheating? No, I think we need to build their capabilities on how to be able to now use it in their natural life. But Dr. Fernandez, I'm only gonna limit you to three words to this.

Michael Conner: Three words, and I, I, I'm, I'm probably not gonna be successful, but I'm gonna try it anyway. What three words, Dr. Fernandez, do you want today's audience to leave our podcast with regarding Generation Alpha and [00:54:00] Generation Beta readiness for an AC 2035 economy that is going to be heavy laden with this phrase that you stated, the future of work?

Rick Fernandez: Curiosity Consistency And entrepreneurship 

Michael Conner: Oh, you're a rule follower. Oh, you're fo- that, that... mic drop, that's it? 

Rick Fernandez: That's it. That's- 

Michael Conner: Oh, man. He's like, "I'm not elaborating. It's only three." 

Rick Fernandez: I mean, that's what you gotta have. You gotta have those, those, like, if you can, if s- you know, I guess I could've said self-directed, right?

Rick Fernandez: 'Cause self-directed learning is gonna be critical, you know? 

Michael Conner: Ab- absolutely. 

Rick Fernandez: So, you know, and, and one of the th- you, you... I do wanna make this point, because this is critical. W- the, the service that you provide is absolutely a massive blind [00:55:00] spot, because even identifying within a school district of what are the things that we don't know we need to be looking for- 

Michael Conner: Mm-hmm

Rick Fernandez: to, to inform how we, how we do our work, right? And if we don't even know that this variable should be a part of how we look at instruction, then we'll never, we'll never get on track. And so having a, a, a resource that can say, "Look, I kn- you've got all your, your student data. You've got your teacher data.

Rick Fernandez: You got the, the things that we all kind of look at in, in this system. Here are the things that you probably should be funneling in, and here's, here's the why, and here's the system to help you do that." So now I've just enhanced your ability to forecast, to maneuver, to adapt, and there's not, there's not a lot of people out there that can provide that type of guidance.

Rick Fernandez: A- or d- and, and to, to a district's, you know, detriment, don't even know they should be asking those types of questions to come in and help. And, a- and why we agree, like, you gotta [00:56:00] have a data science on, on staff. Or if you don't, you better, you better go find somebody l- like yourself that can help navigate.

Rick Fernandez: Like, you gotta start funneling in these things and building the regularity of how you analyze it to, to inform all this other stuff that you hold sacred. 

Michael Conner: Absolutely. And Dr. Fernandez, that was the rationale why I developed the Agile diagnostic and AI platform, and the work that's, you know, taking off in Texas that we're launching very soon, I would say within the next 25 to 30 days.

Michael Conner: Because you're right, some of the questions are latent questions that are hidden that needs to be asked, that gets to that level of root cause or that root cause analysis. Um, the platform, you know, one of the things is to really connect analytics to this rapid innovation, experimentation, rapid continuous improvement cycles that you talked about.

Michael Conner: But it goes back to [00:57:00] leading learning organizations to the three words you were talking about, curiosity, consistency, and then this level of entrepreneurialship, where we have to be entrepreneurial in our practices. Dr. Rick Fernandez, thank you for coming on Voices for Excellence. You know, I'm sure- You know your fan base, I'm gonna call it your fan base because you got a big fan base out there.

Michael Conner: Uh, anybody that wants to become a part of the Dr. Rick Fernandez fan base, how would they be able to get in contact with you? 

Rick Fernandez: Oh, you can find me on LinkedIn is probably the easiest way, and, and I, I, I pride myself on being responsive and have a lot of great conversations. So look me up on LinkedIn. You can check us out on the, you know, the Boyz of EdTech with my, my, my four other partners.

Rick Fernandez: We do a lot in the, in the education space, and so that's pretty easy to find as well. And if you're in Texas, you probably have seen me somewhere, so I, I'm here to help. We, we- everybody's here to help, and we wanna, we wanna make sure that, that our kids are successful. That's, that's what [00:58:00] all of this is about.

Rick Fernandez: Um, l- lot of challenges, but there's a lot of opportunity. There's so much opportunity out there for, for educators and for our system. Thanks for having me. 

Michael Conner: Absolutely, Dr. Fernandez. I- is that the Boyz of EdTech i- sweatshirt? I got... Listen, listen, I 

Rick Fernandez: got- We got merch. We got merch. We had to, yeah. Oh, oh, yeah. My kids are giving me such a hard time, li- like, "Dad, you think you're, like, a YouTu-" Like, "No, I'm not a YouTuber.

Rick Fernandez: This is, like, this is for work." You know, I've never been, been hasthed so much by my children for having a podcast, but man, it has been highly, highly informative, um, to see, like, that entrepreneurial spirit, right? Like, I've got four other partners that have been doing this work, that are all entrepreneurial, that see some of these things, and, and, and, like, d- it has been awesome.

Rick Fernandez: A- but engaging with those, those types of people that normally may not come, you know, as a superintendent, y- you're, you're so insulated with, with the education community. Well, like, your, y- [00:59:00] your, your world outside of that is critical to help you, you know, decide what we need to be doing for kids because this is where, how, how, how life is happening when they get out, right?

Rick Fernandez: So... 

Michael Conner: Shout out to the Boyz of EdTech. And you know, though, you know, all four of them, you know, when you think of how they spell boyz, I remember when I was talking to, to Jacob and, and you, and you guys were starting it, and you had the boyz spelled B-O-Y-Z. I'm like, "Wait, wait, they boys in the hood?" 

Rick Fernandez: Yeah. Well, I mean, look, that was like- 

Michael Conner: Ron and Jacob, boys in the hood?

Rick Fernandez: We were just, we had to have some- a name, so I, I threw that out there as like, look, we'll just call it this until we f- figure out what to name the show, and then that just stuck. So- 

Michael Conner: It has to. It, it, it, it, it has to. It has to stick like Jacob is the dodo. So, but on that note, man, Dr. Fernandez, thank you for coming on.

Michael Conner: I, I look, I, I'm sure I'll talk to you probably this week or later, you know, early next week, but thank you for coming on VFE. 

Rick Fernandez: [01:00:00] Yep, my pleasure. 

Michael Conner: And on that note, onward and upward, everybody, and have a great evening.