As a teacher, professor, consultant, and member of senior leadership teams, Dr. Kristopher J. Childs focuses on excellence in teacher content and pedagogical knowledge, equity, leadership development, and organizational change. His work is guided by his mantra, “Live life to the fullest; you only get one.”
Dr. Michael Conner
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. Welcome to another episode of Voices for Excellence. I am your host, Dr. Michael Conner, CEO and Founder of the Agile Evolutionary Group, and also, as you know, the hosts for VFE! And today’s episode. Now, this is going to be unapologetic and it’s definitely going to be bold because the individual I have here, I’m just smiling because I know the direction of our conversations, because we believe in a lot of the same things. But he is an author. He is doing his thing across the country with regards to keynoting, leveraging mathematics education across the country. He is one of the experts. I should take it another level. He is a czar when it comes to mathematical pedagogy in the context of being culturally responsive in our classrooms. But more importantly, he brings, I like to say, that level of being comfortably uncomfortable with the topics that need to be addressed in education. And without further ado, right. I’ve heard… the first time I heard Dr. Kris Childs, we’re gonna go way back, the first time that I heard Dr. Kris Childs speak was pre-pandemic I think I was in my second or third year as a superintendent and Kris was the keynote for my district. And boy, did he move my district. And then I just been following him ever since and I’ve heard seen him and feel his energy when he presents topics that make people feel comfortable. But I’m like, yes. Dr. Childs, that is exactly what needs to be, that needs to come up. So without further ado, my brother, Dr. Kristopher Childs, welcome to VFE, long time no see, my brother.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
Man, it’s great to see you. I’m excited. I heard so much about this show that you do. I don’t call it a podcast. I call it the show because you are changing the world what you’re doing. I’m excited to be here today and to jump in this conversation.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely, Dr. Childs, listen. Today, we’re going to call it. It is called the Voices for Excellence Show.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
It’s a show man, it’s not just the podcast. You got video going, you got the audio piece. This is a show that’s about to change the world, change education. I’m getting hyped up, let me calm down. I’m gonna get… let me calm down.
Dr. Michael Conner
You don’t gotta calm down, brother, because you just gave me the keys to be the next Montel Williams. There you go. There you.Dr. Childs, it’s so good to see you here. Listen, unapologetically, we’re going to just jump right into the show because I want my audience to feel your energy, to feel your expertise, to feel your level of what excellence in education looks like simultaneously and how we can interface that because I want to get down to your expertise with regards to math instruction. Your book, you know, specifically focuses on Black girls in math stem. Wow. And then what you what you’re seeing in the landscape of education today. But let’s get to the first question, because this is one of my favorite questions. I’m inferring I’m going to know, who are you going to pick the group you’re going to pick? Because I just got that vibe. I’ll tell you, the equity song that, you know, when I see you, this is what I think. But when leaders, educators, whether it be cross-sector partners from the research world or even change agents across the country when they hear, engage or even listen to a keynote address by Dr. Kristopher Childs, what equity song comes to mind when they listen to your message. I know I just jumped on, And when I remember the first question, I’m like, okay, this is the song and this is the group. When I think of Dr. Kris Childs, but when others others hear, see, engage and listen to you. What song, in their mind, what song comes to their mind when they listen to Dr. Kristopher Childs.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
So if you’ve ever seen me live and in person, I always put a Michael Jackson song. I hit them with either We Are the World or They Don’t Really Care About Us. I’m talking about children. But what comes to mind, really, this is my jam, this is one of my hidden songs. I play this song daily. It’s a song by William Murphy called Jus Us and he spells just, J-U-S. I’m going to give you all the lyrics and you’ll hear why this is really my equity song in the work that we’re doing. I’ll give you a couple lyrics. “We’re so tired of opening, praying, so tired on waiting for other people to change. We want justice. Even if it’s just us. There’s still enough of us. We can change the world. “ This is what equity is about. We keep worrying about everybody else. All we need is just us to change the world. Do what we got to do in this work of equity, not just say equity, but as a principle. Not a person could bail states. We got to become equity in all we need to just us. Stop worrying about everybody around you, the person beside you, the administrators, your colleagues, what are you doing to engage in the work of equity? Because all we need is just us. It will pull some people up along the way. But William Murphy, Jus Us, that’s all we need and we’re going to change the world.
Dr. Michael Conner
I love it. And you know, one of my… you know, my tagline is Change the World. And, you know, when you say change the world, I want to elaborate or I want to do like a side. A side of that is Rosa Parks, her famous quote, it only takes one person to change the world. And there’s that causality between William Murphy’s Jus Us and then Rosa Parks, we said change the world because all we do, if we just use us, we’re just us in it, we really can change the world. When someone asks me, do I really think I could change a world, absolutely, absolutely. But I could change the world with the coalition. And if we think about that Jus Us song and I know that, you know, becoming equity has to be with us, but that’s all, man, Jus Us. Listen, Dr. Childs, I was way out there. You want to know the song I chose for you? What song you choose? Public Enemy, Fight the Power. All right.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
I played Fight the Power… What was that? I played Fight the Power in a session. Every session has a song. You name it. I got a couple different ones. I go into Trick Bat, depending upon the buyer, but it’s still unapologetic.
Dr. Michael Conner
Yeah, I hear you. And listen, Jus Us is just as much as unapologetic, or I should go to Public Enemy, Welcome to the Terrordome, right? Yep. Yep. Oh, man, but you are so right with that because when we talk about equity, and this is another kind of sub variable question from your message, when we talk about equity, Dr. Childs, and I really want to get into it. I say that or the end, but I want to front end it and back end it, front load and then want to kind of finish this the podcast or the show, with kind of sandwich gen equity, you know. In your context first before we even get into it, I really love and I’ve heard your definition of equity. Fo my audience today, how do you define that in practice? And then we’ll have this kind of like this coherent theme of that definition equity go through all of our questions, but just from the outset for level setting purposes. What is your definition?
Dr. Kristopher Childs
So working with open up resources, this is a definition that I’ve crafted and others have chimed in to modify, but a working definition of classroom equity, check it out. Classroom equity is a state that would be achieved if students fared the same way in society, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, class, language, physical or cognitive disability, or any other social cultural characteristic. In practice, equity means all students receive necessary supports and opportunities in a timely fashion so they can develop their full intellectual, social, emotional, and physical potential to succeed. To achieve equity, adults organize and the learning opportunities must be willing to alter traditional beliefs and practices to prioritize success for all students. I’m gonna read that last part again. To achieve equity, adults organize, and the learning opportunities must be willing to alter their traditional beliefs and practices to prioritize success for all students. This is a strong definition that we crafted collaboratively, but it gets at the heart of this whole thing the common equity and not this statement every child gets what they need. That style is good, that feels good. But the heart of it, this is what classroom equity is. And most importantly, adults, what are we doing to make it comfortable?
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And Dr. Childs, I just want to restate that again. That definition of equity is very powerful with the last statement and there’s a key word in there that I’m highlighting. I apologize that I’m looking down, just referencing the definition that you gave – alter their traditional beliefs and practices. Okay, my audience out there. And I’m bringing this up to the superintendent lens. When we talk about continuous improvement or change management processes, where we are underscoring innovation for equity and equity for innovation simultaneously in this reciprocal manner, this definition of equity, but focusing on altering their traditional beliefs and practices. Now, when I think about how… and this goes back to W. E. DouMing, right where his quote that he says the system is designed perfectly for outcomes that it’s going to get. And I paraphrase, I want to know now when I think about the model, the Thomas Jefferson Jeffersonian model, industrial model, it was perfectly designed to get us outcomes. Obviously now where we are, we see this chasm between the system and the student demographic that it is serving. 50% African, sorry, 50% black or 50% brown, where these numbers are projecting their 2025. So what I’m thinking is that if we’re underscoring practices and beliefs in an industrial model that is primarily designed for the mainstream, this is going to be a culture shift in education, not just districts and education and staff. Keep this in mind as we go through the podcast and the show of altering their traditional beliefs and practices to prioritize the success of students. Now, Dr. Childs, with that high level definition, explicitly and implicitly within each of these questions, you epitomize intentionality with your work. The boldness in you stands for families and students and unapologetic through your research and book. But now looking at achieving excellence in the AC stage of education, we need to be even bolder to create equitable learning environments or an equitable model for all. You just gave your definition of equity. This must include student voice. Now, when we talk about alternate practices, students must be incorporated into the equation to empower them to be a part of the design. But you have advocated on this for various platforms for students voices from an organizational change mind frame. I want to look at this from a disruptive lens for impact in the context of equity. Where do we start if we truly are trying to influence our model to be more inclusive with the historically marginalized student groups as a priority to achieve equity and excellence in the AC stage of education?
Dr. Kristopher Childs
At first you got to start with that person you see in the mirror. You have to start with what is your why would you want to engage in this work of equity and just engage in the work of education? And you’re why… I’m to give you a spoiler alert. It has to be bigger than you because you go quit on you. I’m just being honest. Everyone starts, especially in the US, these New Year’s resolutions. Oftentimes by February 1st, we quit all of those New Year’s resolutions because we’re going to quit on our selves. So when you start to think about what is your why that ties in the word equity, why do you really want to do this? And it’s going to be bigger than you because then now, you have to have some accountability about the work that you’re doing. So that’s the first thing. The second thing in this work, we need to think through intentionally and be specific. What do you realistically try to accomplish in your career? Realistically, what are you trying to do? Oftentimes, we enter education and look at what we need to get done. We tried to be Amazon, a jack of all trades. Amazon has a little bit of everything, but they really don’t get a lot of things done because they do a little bit everything as opposed to what I’m challenging teams around me, take Chick Fil’ A. What does Chick Fil’ A sell? Chicken. They sell Chicken. Starbucks, their main product is what? Coffee. And in the south, we have a place called Five Guys, they’re main thing is burgers. We are as leaders especially. And I’m just speaking to leaders. We try to be Amazon. I’ma do this, I’ll do this… Be intentional with what you’re trying to accomplish and collaborate and partner with others in this work of achieving equity for children to make sure they have what they need. I’m going to use the term children a lot of times, and Education and I’m not going to use students. I think that’s very formal. It’s an ID number attached, but these are children that we’re working with. There’s someone’s pride and joy and that humanizes them through the term of children. I don’t care whether they’re 18 years old or five years old, they’re still a child. And we had to understand, we think through our why, being intelligent, we’re impacting innocent children and that’s why they’re working definition says that in addition to your traditional beliefs, we as adults create these pieces that your children can only enter into these environments that we as adults have created for them. That’s the reason we want to be intentional. We want to be specific in what we’re trying to do or what we’re trying to accomplish. And then earlier, you mentioned this statistic up, how the demographic fix of children in the school system is changing. I want to challenge this. We use a term, oftentimes a historic one… We use a term of minority students, marginalized… I’m reframing that and getting us to use the term ‘historically excluded’. Because we’ve actually historically we have been marginalized. And they’re not minorities, we’ll talk about that in a minute. We historically excluded them and adults have been intentional in the efforts because right now, if you’re listening to this show in present time, we’re in 2023. We have all this technology and devices. We can do all these predictions. We know exactly who is not getting what they need. So it’s an intentional historical exclusion of children. And now what we come back to is the minority piece. They’re not the minorities because globally they’re actually a global majority. So it’s, again, getting us as adults to reframe who is under our purview in our school system. Who will be working this year from an equitable lens and stop othering in the subgroup of children. Children.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely and Dr. Childs, I’m going to be doing this… kind of this interface going back and forth, looking at it and to silos, but trying to make connection with everything. And I’m going back to your definition again of equity. And when we talk about altering their traditional beliefs and practices. And this is just pertaining to beliefs moving from historically marginalized to historically excluded. When we talk about it, and then to my audience, when we talk about a mindset shift at the organization level to create a shared mental model around core beliefs. What Dr. Childs is getting into is the assumptions, the genetic structures of culture. Where now we’re bringing in different vocabulary, a new vernacular and when you just look at it from a density standpoint, a historically marginalized versus historically excluded. Wow. Now, this is again, another question, a variant from historically excluded. And I want to look at this from a tappable standpoint of artifacts, i.e., curriculum, i.e., resources. Right. Can you just elaborate or associate? I know, Kris, I’m sorry, can you associate his strictly excluded with some of those topical artifacts that we see in our schools today and how we can try to eradicate this historically exclusionary approach that we’re seeing now in education to going back to altering beliefs, altering their traditional beliefs and practices where we know we have to prioritize success of students.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
So I want everybody listening to the show right now to take a moment, visualize your educational environment. I want you to take a moment and visualize yourself walking through that front door as a child. Look around. What do they see? Who don’t they see? Not only from the personnel working there? What images do you have on the wall? Oftentimes when you first walk into the building, we at the past administrators in the hallway, of past people who have gone through these halls. Who do they represent? Who don’t they represent? Then as a child, I walked down that hallway. I get to my classroom environment. What music am I going to possibly hear? What pitches am I’m going to possibly see on the wall what these are going to happen during the school day that are utterly relevant to me as something is, I have no idea what is happening, what they did when I opened up my book and my background math education. So I’m going to pick on math education when I open up my subject book, if it’s math, perfect, favorite subject or whatever subject is a child’s favorite subject. When they open up those your curriculum materials, what do they see when they open the materials? What do they not see on the first page? You see the authorship. Hey, who do they see? Who don’t they see? They limit book through the pages in the images. Who do they see? Who don’t they see the when they go into your cortex and your examples in class, who do they see and who don’t they see? Adults made a decision from where they walked into the role. The building, what pitches on the wall Adult made decision of what song will be played at those made the seizure. What images we have on the wall. We’re activities we’re going to look at. Adults make those curriculum materials. Will that child see themselves represented or will that child not see themselves represented? All of those are intentional moves that impacted child success. And there’s some people say, well, Kris, you know, the school has been here, the books are the books. So I want you to do this. Think about something you care about the most, that you wear on your heart, that this is who you are. Think about it. Now, I want you to enter an environment about 6 hours a day. And that day you care about to most. When you get to the door, leave it at the door. You can’t talk about it. Can’t see it, you can’t experience it, you know? How would you feel? We do that every day to children. We make them come into these environments to assimilate as opposed to liberate. And we as adults can change that. And there are some who say, well, Kris, there’s so many different identities at the school, so very different things, I would say changed all at once. We can do better in what we’re doing. So every child’s identity is represented. They feel seen her in a curriculum experience. Can I guarantee you if I identified as white male, no matter where I go in the country, I’m going to see my identity represented if I identify as white female so they can see their identities represented. Yeah, a team that percent. Obviously the time you’re telling me today identifies as can’t see themselves identified or represented in nothing throughout the entire day we got a body a to year we’re right now the Peter Paul we watched his episode in towards the end of the school year. There are children who have never seen themselves represented in any experiences. That’s all adults. Are you controlling what you can control? Are you going to blame everybody else? Well, Kris, we don’t make the books. You put the pictures on the wall. Well, Chris, we don’t do this. You put play the songs. Well, Kris, we do family nights. Who’s representing who’s a part of it? And arguments alter your traditional beliefs are you so focused on We’ve been doing it like this. We got to keep doing it. Why did you keep doing it a lot to get the same outcome as well. Most children can’t read. Most children lack proficient in math. Most children are not, by nature literate and we keep getting the same society results. I admit I’m against them. Calm down the out.
Dr. Michael Conner
No, please. No, no. This is. This is your platform for my audience to learn. Right? And this is I always say this in every episode that this is used as a professional learning mechanism where they’re taking strategies and tactics and developing new pathologies for our students. Because a lot of the time and Kris, you know this, you know, you and I would have this conversation on the phone at a restaurant over cocktails. Now I got the platform to be able to bring this out universally. So now we’re better preparing the coalition around this change. So be unapologetic as much as you want. Okay, Don’t worry about that. But I want to underpin something, my brother, because you said something that that that resonates with me. Right. As stimulate in lieu of slavery. And, you know, when I get back to this and this is where I and Kris you’ll probably appreciate just put my research hat on John Adams work. Right. And John, I do I know you laugh because one of the most controversial cultural anthropologist probably our country has seen. I mean, we’ve seen Dr. Niguera, even challenged John Adams work. But when there’s elements, right, obviously there’s elements of AGL’s work that I don’t believe. But there’s elements now that is changing my mind, because a significant component of my literature review was challenging his theory around, you know, a simulation versus while he he contextualized it as involuntary minorities, non-ambulatory minorities, and the involuntary minority EES that assimilate to the mainstream culture develops just level of fictive kinship. Right. Right now when I think about that’s a simulation, but it doesn’t lead to this level of liberation, which I think that now our environments have to be able to do. Because you’re absolutely right. I didn’t I didn’t see representation of me until now. And the only representation of me I saw was in the physical education area where there plays sports. I didn’t see a black or brown scientist. I didn’t see a woman who was a scientist. I didn’t see I, you know, black or brown individual as a protagonist leader, you know, within the book. Right. I didn’t I didn’t see that. And our students still don’t see that, you know, that level of representation, let alone we still carry this notion that, you know, if we have, let’s say, a doctor child’s or Dr. Conner in front of them and we’re we’re uptown and we have raised down here, that doesn’t mean we’re bad teachers. We can be mad at a God if we just don’t fit the traditional norms. So I really like how you says adults, because the images, the teachers, the music, their resources, the community events follow the traditional normalization of what we’re used to, where now we’re like, okay, we got to put we are on a shelf for 6 hours and then come back into the real world. Why can’t we align the real world, the economic demand, with our school demand with that? But, you know, we could talk about 10 hours for that. That’s why I’m I’m kind of myself walking. But let’s get into your book you coauthored man. I mean and this is crazy, right? And this is what I love about you. I will put you up against anybody in the context of bad pedagogy. I mean, yes, you’re bold, you’re unapologetically intentional. But what people don’t realize is your are a mathematics instruction czar with standards, is a Czar with regards to the shifts, how to be able to move pedagogy into this deep conceptual conceptual phase where when we go back to change the traditional beliefs sympathy structure, we see a lot of procedural pedagogy being underscored because we’re. Oh, Dr. Childs, I feel bad for you. Let me make it easier. Okay, So now getting into your book, making Sense of mathematics, we’re teaching girls in grades K through five. Just the title itself is an outlier Mathematics instruction Girls Elementary, Outlier, Outlier, Alert, Outlier. But the content of your book highlights best practices focusing on my set, my set and pedagogical shifts that are needed in the AC stage of education. So very briefly, on a high level, Dr. Childs, can you unwraps specific themes from your book and how we can help leaders and practitioners in their respective districts?
Dr. Kristopher Childs
So what does but I’m just quickly pointing out Michael authors identified as women because I got pushed back one time, Why do you write a book about teaching math for girls and you don’t identify as a girl? My coauthors, I didn’t ask women. And also I’m the father of two daughters. So for me, when reading this, it became very personal because oftentimes and I told them they won’t see themselves represented in the STEM fields. They might be in mathematics, right? Education. So with this book, we sought out to look at what could just be a straight, what a biases, biases that someone who identifies as female deals with in this male dominated field. And so we would have biases. What a stereotype they we looked at how do you honored outbursts ways of doing mathematics. Oftentimes we love to put mathematics in the box as opposed to think it would have different ways that folks can express themselves as relates to mathematics. And then really harping on this piece of classroom discourse. What does that look like? What does that feel like in a classroom setting? We dive into a lot more topics within this book in the pedagogical process is also one of the key features I really, really love about this book is at the very end of the book we have affirmations for every day of the school year. They’re dedicated regularly to young girls. Why? Why did we put these things in here? It goes back to earlier. We talked about the epistle, how we create environments, who are we created them for? And we keep looking at mathematics of the male dominated domain, which is definitely not. And should it be posited that But we had to create environments that identifies young girls. How do I see myself within it and not through a stereotypical? That’s all, Kris. That’s great. I do ones where there are bakers who said you had to bake it, were educated about it. As a young girl, we don’t have to do that. So when we wrote this book that was what we were trying to push and think through. Lemonade by is a stereotype. It is thinking about the context that we use it and the practices that we use in the classroom to engage all student learners. But specifically with this book, Young learned that in Press Girls at Grace. Kate Gruber
Dr. Michael Conner
Dr. Childs, I appreciate that because I’m going back to your definition again, and my rationale is asynchronous learning, where they can play this back over and over again to really dig and the content and the strategies that you’re unwrapping. Going back to your definition, all students needing the necessary resources right? And that’s one phrase that I’m pulling out from your equity definition, because what you just highlighted with regards to affirmations for every day, so moving classroom instruction, traditional classroom instruction, where there’s more, where there’s more discourse and honoring the diverse ways of math, where you’re leveraging girls as the focus, I go back to your definition of equity, gender equity. You know, my stance with regards to gender equity, all students needing the necessary resources, right, or receiving the necessary resources, that’s another one where we have to alter their traditional beliefs and practices. Yes, changing that outlook of STEM education, where we need to now dismantle the inequities from a gender purpose. Right. I mean, I’m glad that we’re seeing more of a push to it. And I we’re even going to go even further beyond math instruction. We need to be able to push gender equity in the context of organizational leadership, CEO, Superintendent. Yes, because listen, Dr. Childs, I’m going to that’s why I did not look, I know I was going to go on a tangent which fired up all the time 4% nationally. Dr. Childs, 4% nationally of our superintendents across the country are women that I may use. Hillary’s words. That’s deplorable, right? And now when I break men out, when I bring it down to the context of your book, I’m sure when we see women in STEM related fields, it’s deplorable, right? I’m tired of seeing men. And as engineers invest in these STEM areas and these STEM jobs, aerospace, manufacturing, we need to be able to dismantle those gender equity, to invite more of more women that are making decisions, but also sitting at the table with men, constructing those algorithms, constructing those construct in those models. But we got to introduce some at the school level, like you said, and to me, this is just being culturally responsive. Everything that you’re highlighting is…
Dr. Kristopher Childs
So one of the things I have you talked about. Let’s go to corporate really quick because we have a lot of administrators and leaders listening. Who is your direct report? And typically a direct report is going to get to your role one day. I have a statement that I use. Are you training of someone who does not look like you in terms of race, ethnicity and gender identity to be calm? Wow. What? And that’s how we can. Then you say that one more time. One more time about jobs. Who are you training up under you? And that is different from you in terms of race, ethnicity, identity and gender identity to become the next you. Absolutely. Other identities matter. So I don’t want anyone to lead us say what about the other? But those adding these matters the most because they are poor facing and people making assumptions about them, but they impact both career. They also impact from an economic lens based upon someone’s assumed gender identity. How much you make. Okay, that’s the data. But my piece is what are we doing as leaders to change this table? Who was at the table was in the room. We oftentimes do a lot of identity. Our mentor, you know, the next Chris, he is the next Kris, just like me. No, I love Chris. We’ll need another Chris in the world. We need someone else now does that a school me from working with others like my sisters. Y’all listening? What you mean, Kris? Trust me, I work with my sisters. I mentor you also, but I’m also intentional about it. I’m about this work of equity and about this work of change. Everybody getting that opportunity to be in these roles, and especially these being the leadership role I get to, is again, it’s intentional that these leadership roles, a bunch of old white guys is intentional. So but you guys look. So I purposely surrounded myself around women folks who identify as women. And I say that intentionally, y’all, I want to be respectful because I want to make sure do they get the same opportunities? I surround myself with folks of a lot of different identities that typically not in these mean roles. And I call in, Hey, I’m going to this meeting. I want you to be there to give them the opportunity to see it, to fill it, to taste it. And and brothers, y’all going to be up next. What about to ask Will look at the my brothers. But it’s easier for me to mature you all get you to I met Athena. I want to also give other folks opportunity I’m constantly from April they surround myself with different folks of different identities to bring these pieces in here. But again, we’ve got to be intentional in this work if we’re going to back to Kate Education. Winter’s about the work of children to cure their desire to see themselves in the highest levels it purposely. My daughter tells a local elementary school I intentionally told the school because her principal identifies as a black female. My daughter identifies as a black female and my daughter knows a little bit. But she started to see. I see why I at the school that I can see someone like me every morning because I love the principal. She’s got to do her every morning greeting my daughter, someone like me at the highest level and do this. I can be this. I see myself represented with it. It goes a long way, folks.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. I mean, well, well stated that the child. Well, well, well stated. My audience, please. This is another one of those episodes you got to play about three or four times. I can really get my single nugget from this episode. So now I want to go into math pedagogy, right? Yeah. And I want my audience to fill your expertise in the context of classroom instruction and even instruction from a tiered, a tiered intervention manner. Right? So math instruction, we know it has to be shifted radically in order to be able to have students think deeply. A lot of you know, what we see universally and this is not anything towards any teacher independent teacher learning organization, but holistically as a problem, a context deeper than a problem of practices that we have to be able to shift from this procedural flow and see type of, you know, just kind of basic rudimentary facts that we are great at teaching. But now getting to that deeper level, right, that level, higher thinking that is needed specifically when we’re moving into this new economy of Delta 2030. Right. There’s a misalignment of instruction. Essentially what I’m stating. Now, my question is this. Right? Going back to your definition of equity, I love it. And here’s the thing, Dr. Childs, I’m glad you copyright it because this is equity right here, this definition, as I’m reference in it. And when I look at the military model right now, the industrial model, and when I look at your definition of equity, we’re basically doubling down on this model, even to the point where we’re at this first year of the stage of education. Right. We’re underscoring industrial industrialization, essentially. But where do we start to shift teacher practice? Right. I know you’re big on building professional learning environments where there’s continuous learning for practitioners, right? Really going deep and ensuring that is is happening in the classroom. But when when we start shifting teacher practices and instructional leadership at all tiers, how do we make sure that pedagogy is being impactful? Okay, responsive and more importantly, being systematic is a higher level of instruction systematize in the stage of education so we could meet all needs.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
So this one, we got two folks to look at this math approach. I remember when I was in school, my teacher, all I was I love calculators and I love technology. To this day. My teacher always told me, You won’t always have that calculated, Kris. You need to learn the formula. You need to learn these strategies. You won’t have that calculator, right? And I said, whatever. I’m, oh, I had to watch calculator at one point. I’m always have a calculator, but I want to publicly. That’s the first time I’ve ever done this. I want to apologize to my teacher. You all were right. I would not always have a calculator in my pocket. And you were right about that. I don’t have just a calculator or I don’t have a calculator in my car. What I actually had is a computer in my pocket. Now, the question I have for my educators out there we’re not going to reverse would take not right the children you’re teaching today always have a version of a computer in their pocket. What do you doing to artists this technology and start with the policies of oh my gosh, Kris, They got to learn blight because one day they going to use it. The dagger system is part of a square root of B squared. We’ll see. Square I’ve never been asked was the dragon stare right? It got me get the DRM. I can say, Hey, Siri was the diagram was there. Now do I need to know how to apply? Yes, that’s what I mean by harnessing the power technology. I was saying if Siri can solve the task in this an app on Android use yow on my theory get a get apple it Siri could solve the task is too easy of a attacks we need to develop problem solvers and not just rule followers. Yeah so here’s what I call my big whopper environment. Number one, make sure you have a child centered approach. Make sure you have a child centered approach. We love an education here about child, Senator. I care about them first. And we create an environment. Literally, they’re just an afterthought. Are we creating context and situations? There’s thousands center birthing. The second piece use rich problem solving that allows the most will approach entry points into the tech. The problem Why is it rich problem solving? Yes, I’m talking about rare problem. No one is going to ask. It’s out on the street one day. You’re Jeff Beck. Families was seven. Blessed was eight plus eight. But they will ask you, hey, you’re walking into a store, you have $10. This item is $7. I was tased. You get dust. Problem solved. Given the rich were problems that they could solve, the problems they can solve the routine problem. So one child’s in approach to use a rich problem solver. And with the rich problem solver, it gives them multiple entry points. Every child can engage in it. Either they can always say, I could count the center or I can count the team, and that’s their entry point. But if you just give them a problem, set up cluster equals blight. They don’t have any point. You either get it or you don’t. So we want to use rich problem solving to provide that opportunity. That’s number one. Number two. Number three, we need a discourse in the hits environment. And I’ve never met a child. Does doesn’t like to talk, and that’s in their own way. Okay. Because. Well, I have one, you know, son, why I always give you one example. In 1984, I had a child did actually did not talk, but they communicated some matter. Oh, yes. Okay. To start with that. So every child likes to talk. Are we harnessing this energy in the mathematics environment? Oftentimes we get to math. You can’t talk. You have to listen to me. And children are sitting there and we wonder why they’re not engaged. You provide them opportunities for a discourse in the next environment to talk about the math in the test that you given them. It’s a rich problem solver. Test this child, say a thing they like. Engage it. Yes. What They have something to say about I was in my daughter’s class the other this past Monday. She’s in grade two and they were doing Italian working on table and. One of the tasks was create your own table. And most of the children, like I got to talk about my favorite candies and they they got to ask the class, You’re my favorite candies. What are your and take out? They were like, you know, they did music oh oh like it is doing salads. But I had made a rogue routine test. They wouldn’t have been engaged at that advanced level discord and just talking in their own language, talking to the neighbor, asking questions, says pillar three, and then a fourth one. Allow all children, the opportunity to showcase their thinking. I have a strong I’m writing down on this thing that every child into this environment with level potential, it is our job to unlock it all. We allowed them to showcase their deep level thinking, not yours, not this child, not that what they braggy. I give no chance to showcase their thing, even if they deal with that example. Or they could only count the seven I problem. Encourage them because they can count the seven today. They geek out the tears and why they kick out the tears tomorrow to come up after and after the next day. But we still get stapled. They can’t count. So I did my pass today, put them in the corn. What are we doing to live in a think about what you personally to ride a bicycle. All of us have fallen to Lara. You get bike up and you can’t ride in the same thing in math class. We got to give children those opportunities to get up and keep riding. So going back over the big bought 1000 approach to rich problem solving test you to the test there in every curriculum rule out the rituals that a good number three a discourse in the house environment let these baby talk little talk you they’re setting the edge on the playground say edge what school The same age in a way. Make a thought. Let them talk about math and problem. Solve the how is going to apply to the lab and then allow them to showcase that the knowledge children literally bring about that these children I up all their I pay and I’ve yet to see them see them read the menu up how do I turn on my AP? But we we come in math class, they get Kris. I got to show them the math first before they could figure it out. You’ve got to show them that they you’ve got to give them an opportunity and make it a rich problem, solve it, and you build upon what they bring it with. Then it does Again, a lot of us Well, I wasn’t taught that way. We’ll look at society today. It obviously didn’t work and most people don’t remember the formulas that added, subtract, add in fractions, multiply over. They don’t, you don’t remember it, you know. But problem solving skills are strategies. That’s what we need to impart upon children so they can solve real world problems and use their analytical skills that they all had to engage. Laugh elementary teachers. You see these things. These are things like all thinkers, let children use this just a nugget because all the times I’d want to clap and I’m like, What are you doing? I’m counting my fingers. Why not use the teacher? We shouldn’t use them thing. This is one of their God given manipulatives. Break them down the fingers, toes, arms, elbows like a gift box. Oh, what? The power of mathematics it is not in a box, is not a root, is definitely not a standardized test. It is how we make sense of the beauty of the world to us in their approaches. Rich, Problem solved. It hit this court. And most important, that they shall showcase their thinking and their manner and you build upon it so they can only do this power guillotine to do this childish bar. Let them do this park. And we keep building, we see, build it. And that’s how we take the game. The use of mathematics and the callus object.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. Well stated, Dr. Childs. And I’ll tell you this. I wish I knew the fingers and the elbows were free resources for it. Manipulatives. I would have saved a lot of money.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
Hey, wait, wait. Net? No, because, you know. Yeah. So this was like, almost. Y’all better buy these children, manipulate is overbudget or manipulative. Y’all spend the money on the manipulative. I’m hoping that I could stop this. So clip it did it to everybody in your district. We need manipulatives in the butt, and we have fingers to go.
Dr. Michael Conner
So. So now, Dr. Childs, listen, we’ve been going on. This is my last question, right? And I kind of interface two questions. And one, because I promise my audience I was going to end it with equity, but I also want you to be able to leverage this answer to really close close us out very boldly and intentionally, intentionally equity inclusion. We know, right? And I wanted to end with this equity inclusion and now social justice. And now, based off of today’s show, I want to throw in historically excluded right into that. Now, you know those terms with the exception of historically excluded, but those terms of equity, inclusion, social justice, bringing it back to marginalized, the old terminology of it. You know, what I think about that is it’s it’s it’s this vernacular that’s LA medicine and education. Right. We’re seeing all these various initiatives and creative ideas, a lot of affinity groups, a lot of discussion that is happening across the country. But, you know, JJ Is our experience in opposition BS IPA vs 8vi apologize. Politics and federal policies, right politics barrel policies. This is it is going to be challenging for the next four years I think, to make these necessary shifts to be bold against these politics, against, you know, federal policies that we’re seeing that are essentially eliminating 50% of the demographics of our students historically excluded, which is continuing. But what I want you to do is in three words, in three words, what do you want today’s audience to lead with? If they’re leaving our show, leaving the podcast, supporting urgency of now in the AC stage of education, we were hearing all this about equity. We’re hearing all this about social justice, inclusion. But really, we need to support this urgency of now an AC stage of education. So what three words do you want our audience to leave with to go and make change in this new dimension?
Dr. Kristopher Childs
I’m going to take a little liberties. I want to jump back to policy and I’ll leave you with the three words Iraq. Perfect. Here’s the thing, folks. People create policies. People can change policy. Mm. We get so stuck on these policies, not thinking through just as people can act in ignorance. What are you doing in your environment where you can enact equitable words? Are you taking advantage of it because people create in equal policies, They create equal ones. Oftentimes we harp on Ukraine, all these policies and the internet, well, positive Ukraine to make it better. If you have the space to do it, are you doing it? And if you don’t have the space to do it, what are you doing? Because education is political. This country is political. What do you do it to work, to change policies? They can be created and policies are in the eye and the hand, whoever has power. That’s all I’m saying. Now to close it out, my many amazing amazing my three years of this as you I love how you kept going back to the working definition of classroom equity. This is the work the my while when I do what I do. Three words of this box children. These are. But when you run folks out there you are. Those children deserved better. Why would you willing to create better for them? Are you willing to do better for them because they are children, They’re innocent. They don’t pick the zip code even though the zip code determines their life, they don’t pick the neighborhood. They live it. Even though the neighborhood determines their school, they don’t even pick the school. They go to. You all craft in the experience. But children, not those children that got child, that they’re all children deserve better. What are you doing as adults to make sure every child receives a high quality education and their identity does not predict their academic outcomes? I can go to anybody in America in 2023. If you tell me their race, ethnicity of the children, you tell me this socioeconomic status. I can pretty accurately predict how they’re going to perform academically. Because some of you say, well, Chris, you know, we can’t talk about their race ethnicity thing. I’m down here. Good. Okay. Let’s say you take race ethnicity off the table. Talk about what socioeconomic status. To me, there are poor white kids. We love to talk about the poor. Melanie. The kids do Well, white kids, you got to start using policies and being strategic at impacting children to every lane that you have and stop focusing on all of the scattered things they want you to focus on. But my question to you coming back to all of this, children, these are better. The question I have for you as an audience, what are you going to do to make sure they get better or just be honest? Like I tell people all the time, he door to door, you probably don’t care about them, know it, but you care about them. You’re going to do better, but they don’t get ignored. You don’t like people it and jet we buy everything is great, Kris, you making up stuff but children deserve better the spiteful.
Dr. Michael Conner
Intentional, bold and unapologetic. You heard it right from Dr. Kristopher Childs. Three words Children deserve better. A man, a man and a man on that. And what are you doing as a journalist? They’re asking to be better. How many rules someone get thrown out of? What do you? Because our children deserve better. To my audience, please. So do deserve better. Continue the great work that you’re doing. But doubted that the child and anybody in my audience want to get in touch with you, how would they be able to get in touch with you?
Dr. Kristopher Childs
You can find me on all social media platforms at DRKCHILDS, at Dr. K Childs, or on my website. www.KristopherChilds.com. Christopher with a K, K-R-I-S-T-O-P-H-E-R Childs.com, Kristopher Childs. Reach out to me on either one of those platforms because this is… I imagine the energy y’all got it and face to face? Woo, I’m a, I’m a bad boy, that’s it.
Dr. Michael Conner
Dr. Kristopher Childs, thank you for being a guest on VFE, it’s such an honor to have you on, you made it brother. I’m glad. Listen, this has been a long time in the making. What we’ve been DM-ing each other, texting, I think, in the past couple months. And now we finally did it because, listen, you were in high demand. Know why I got three different text messages. You have to… Do you know Dr. Kristopher Childs? Yeah, I know Dr. Childs. You have to get him on your podcast. So I was listening to my people, I was listening to the audience, bring Kris Childs, we got him that.
Dr. Kristopher Childs
I appreciate it, keep doing the amazing things that you’re doing and I love this show. Keep doing this show. It’s taking over.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely my brother and on that note, onward and upward. Have a great evening.
