Dr. Shawna Dinkins is the Deputy Superintendent of Educational Services in the Lynwood Unified School District. Beyond her experiences, Dr. Dinkins has dedicated her professional career to serving students and families and advocating on their behalf.
Dr. Michael Conner
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to another episode of Voices for Excellence. I am your host, Dr. Michael Conner, CEO and founder of the Agile Evolutionary Group, and your proud host for VFE. And today it is an absolute honor to have Dr. Shawna Dinkins on VFE. Now we are here is that we’re not worthy type of having Dr. Dinkins here. Dr. Dinkins is a leading voice, a staunch equity and innovation voice within the ecosystem as well as really carry the necessary vitality in order to make conditional changes, conditional changes with regards to structures and systems for all. So, it is an absolute honor to have Dr. Shawna Dinkins, the proud Deputy Superintendent of the Lynwood Unified School District and Lynwood, California. Dr. Dinkins, I am so happy you are on VFE. So it is great that I have you.
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
It is great to be here always a pleasure to be in your presence. And I’m so honored that you invited me. Thank you for having me.
Dr. Michael Conner
I’m so honored that you accepted the invitation because too is out there. Dr. Dinkins and I, when we have conversations, the conversations really get deep into the genetic structures of how we can really change our systems from an equity standpoint. In some of the conversations that we have had, I said it would be absolutely selfless just to keep this contained to Dr. Dinkins and I because we want to be able to now know we talked strategies, we talked met this and we get really real about equity. And, you know, the last discussion that we had after death, that’s when I said I got to have you on the podcast, because I know that my my viewers and my listeners, they use this as a asynchronous tool for professional learning and for them to actually go back and to unwrap some of the strategies and leadership ideologies that you’re going to present. Dr. Dinkins I tell you, I had to share with the world this it I don’t know why you thought of me, but again, it’s an honor. I’m so glad to have it. So let’s get right into the podcast. Now that you have made significant and I mean significant contributions in the education landscape, made significant contributions in the context of some of these paradigm shift that we’re seeing in education, specifically grounded in the meta themes of innovation, excellence and equity. So as a voice in California and across this country, you served in the role as deputy superintendent in Lynwood. What song? I can’t wait for this. What song do education stakeholders highlight when they are describing Dr. Shawna Dinkins?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Well, my personal anthem is I’m Every Woman by Chaka Khan. I brought it back to Chaka Khan. Okay, but if I had to talk about Lynwood with students, my song would be You’re Simply the Best by, rest in peace, Tina Turner, because that’s how I feel about the work that I do, and that’s how I feel about the students and families that I serve. They are the best and they deserve the best.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And Dr. Dinkins, it doesn’t surprise me that you you brought out history here, Chaka and Tina. Now, that is a first here on VFE when you got this synonymous of Chaka and Tina worked together, Every Woman and You Are Simply the Best because it is completely true about your work, what you do, your your, your, your morals, your values as a leader that incorporates it encompasses all. Absolutely. Because you certainly do make students feel simply the best. And I got to see that at the CALSA Academy for Leadership and Innovation, where Lynwood was a host site for us. And we’ll get into that. But I am every woman. Yes. And that is great because I’ll tell you this Dr. Dinkins, you know, if I had a choice, right? If there’s this and I see this very one minute, you know, my son’s education is huge for me. And knowing that song, I’m every woman I know that I would be able to put Mikey and Lynwood under your leadership. And that would feel quite right. Yes, I would love to have, you know, Mikey in Lynwood with that. But there’s me from a personal sense, But you know, the work that you do with its true doctor that they give because when hear you speak about equity when I hear you speak about excellence and the way you advocate for students is contagious and it is. And so thank you for you work on that so much respect for me here, Dr. Dinkins, but I want to talk about the grant that you secured. Right. And I owe this. That’s when we were at the CALSA Academy for Leadership and Innovation. Right. And you secured a multimillion dollar grant for all schools where we were. Let me rephrase that. Right. And that was an anomaly. And I know about that grant that you filled out and your team and congratulations. But that multimillion dollar grant for Lynwood Unified School District to become a district of community schools now. Yes. A lot of people outside of California. Right. Might not know the definition or the cash of the community school model and the competitive grant that Lynwood achieved and received. So you spent a lot of time, right, working in an investment to secure that competitive grant for your community. That right there is excellence, that equity to out a score but yet another stage of education right. We’re trying to move to this whole child, whole school, whole community approach to support to support students and families in this new paradigm. So for my listeners, Dr. Dinkins, what is the Community school designing initiative? And if I cannot, right, if I’m an executive leader or a leader, and if I cannot secure grants to underscore this type of design or this type of model, or it might exceed my operating my rating budget, how would I be able to leverage innovation to start and scale this model in my district?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
So first and foremost, community schools is grounded in four pillars. Those four pillars are social emotional learning, culturally responsive classrooms, making sure that there are resources and adequate staffing for mental health, and making sure that basic needs such as food scarcity, housing, all of those needs are met with resources.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. Now, just to unwrap right. The community school model and design and the four supporting pillars to be able to leverage this type of innovative design within the district. I want to focus on one one of the pillars that you highlighted. Right. And this is of a subquestion mental health. And we have seen across the country, right increase. We’ve seen an increase of suspensions, exclusion, and I like to say exclusions beyond the state mandated duration for a suspension. Right. When we when we start seeing this rate and we start seeing the cumulative of time out of school, which more analyze it defies or the antithesis of inclusion, when we look at mental health and really go deep into it, the depth and breadth of mental health. I know you are one of the leading experts in California that addresses mental health inequity in the synonymous context. What does this look like to be able to now to start supporting our students specifically if it’s undergird it with community school design?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Well, specifically, when you that last question that you asked me, how do you do it without a grant? First, you got to listen to the voices of the kids and the needs got to meet the needs of both your staff and your students. So when it comes to the mental health portion, even before the grant, we had licensed social workers, both in our Students with disabilities group and within our regular group, we’re now up to nine licensed social workers. And before the community grant, I also had 40 to help collaborative partners. Those partners are all resources for counseling services, not just for students, but also for families. And so now the grant gives me an opportunity. This is going to sound weird, but it actually gives me an opportunity to decentralize services. And what that means is, instead of someone needing to come to the district office, whether it’s our food bank, whether it’s for one of our health collaboratives, whether it’s to sign up for counseling, all of that will be centralized now at each school site. So one of my high schools, we are in that grant with the county, but the work is the same and the grab brings additional resources. So I will have a community specialist at every school who will coordinate all of those resources for students at point of need. And I think that’s important, especially in a community such as Lakewood, where you don’t have people who are mobile. And what I mean by that is a lot of our parents want their kids to school. A lot of our folks live within four square miles. So at this, why not abuse? Those things are crucial to getting those needed services to those students and families. So now that will be a resource, a community specialist at every school who if I walked in today and say, you know, my family is really struggling, we need some counseling and we need access to the food bank, what have you, And all of those resources will be given to students and families at their home school site. So when you talk about mental health, I love that my families, my students, they don’t have to wait. So there’s a licensed social worker at every school. There’s a community specialist that every school knew this year before the grant, we create a job called Social Emotional Learning Specialist. These are credentialed counselors who will work with our PBIS. These are positive behavior support systems. They implement lessons according to what the mitigated needs are of the kids. And so we have several layers of services, and I’m just happy for all of them to be cohesive and coherent is supporting our students and families.
Dr. Michael Conner
Amazing, Dr. Dinkins, and the reason I saw kind of this shine is just caption all your sentiments. But one thing that resonates with me right and any will be in your district coming up soon. Dr. Pedro Niguera.
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Oh, yay, we really love Dr. Niguera. He’s a partner.
Dr. Michael Conner
Oh, we love yeah, I tell you, I reference his work in my literature review within my dissertation. But one thing that resonates with me, right, and this is directly coming from a direct quote from Dr. Niguera, and it resonates with me and it still resonates with me years later. Is if students basic needs are not met, they’re not going to learn in the academic environment. Right. Everything that you have just outlined did, including a reverse strategy of this decentralizing services that goes down to this level of customization with resources is to now assure that we are truly meeting the excellence and equity needs for all the human resources that you have incorporated into Linwood Coupling being strategic about the alignment of health collaborative partners, as well as those resources to specifically focused on well-being and mental health is just absolutely commendable that now Dr. Dinkins, again, this is another subquestion in that I want to be able to ask, and this goes online with one of the pillars again, because I think that this is a core impetus, right within the education ecosystem, and it’s around culturally responsive practices, environments around that pillar. There’s multiple interpretations with and culturally responsive practices, culture, responsive environments, developing culture, responsive systems in totality and holistically. But can you, from a community schools lens, unwrap what that context means with regards to culture, responsive environments and practices?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Yes, I’m going to start with the district’s mission vision, objectives and goals, and part of that mission is making sure that we have access, equity and justice. AS So in your book, you referenced that equity means all students, all students, and that’s what we mean when we say that. So in that framework and meeting, you know, going back to Niguera’s work is Maslow’s before Bloom’s right you had it at I’m having home insecurity food insecurity I’m not listening to anything you have to say. So one of the things we’ve done in my work for several years, we’ve had trauma informed practices, trainings with our teachers. But the culturally responsive piece is so important to the relationships because it’s not just knowing your students that relationships is part of the equity right? Because in Lynnwood, Equity means giving students what they need when they need it. And it doesn’t preclude taking something from someone else at all. And so when you talk about equity and access and justice and culturally responsive pedagogy, they’re not model lists, they’re not exclusive of one another. So now when you come to the academic, you is just like Maslow’s to me. Students have to feel affirmed, valued and seen, right? So if I’m teaching you, you know, sue yourself, your lived experiences, your ancestors lived experience represented anywhere. And this K-12 system that we call school, I think that’s detrimental, especially with like in your report you were talking about 2030, especially when more than half of the kids in our school system, public school system, will be brown and black students. So for me, it is imperative. It is urgent right now that we start addressing those dynamics that are moving those levers in the classroom. And it’s more than knowing who your students are, is knowing what they need. And you got to go a little bit deeper to get to those needs because, you know, they’re not going to be real upfront about telling you that it’s going to be some explorations of discovery, and an assessment is a bad word, but we absolutely need it. I don’t think assessment is bad. I think how you leverage assessment is what gives it the wrong name. But in that most responsive framework, we have strategies. We have exclusive curriculum we are implementing. And what a lot of people are not aware of social justice centers, what for identity culture, community, all of those pillars are in the social justice standards. We have a core group of teachers where incorporated. See, this is what I love about Lynn, but I’m not trying to take anything away. And in my brain, word it. These are the standards the kids have to learn the let me slide the inclusivity within it. Right. I’m not going to give you more to do. I’m just going to refine and expand the framework because you cannot tell kids to master standards that they cannot connect to. So you have to include every kid, every group, and as best you can, every lived experience to move that academic, add the social emotional lever for kids.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And to my audience out there, that is one of the most simplified, albeit accurate, death in definition of culturally responsive practices. So Dr. Dinkins, I like, again, as I stated from the outset, I like to use the podcast as a professional learning tool and somebody that we commonly use Hattie’s work rate and the effect size of the instruction point six you and then the asynchronous manner. So to my audience, please go back and listen to that definition of what culturally responsive practices and systems can be. You know, specifically from the context of how Lynwood is implementing those practices in a very strategic and measured way. Now, one thing that I want to focus on that Dr. Dinkins has highlighted was relationships, right? And that you think is a mutual friend of ours, Dr. Luvelle Brown’s Superintendent, Ithaca, New York. He always state that, you know, kids always state that. How can you teach me that you do not know me? And that is so true, Dr. Dinkins, with that and the social justice standards, if anybody really wants to learn about what equity, inclusion and justice look like, please go out to wood. But I want to underscore this, right, because you talked about the equity piece. Now I want to get into one of my subjected I would say one of my subjective favorites is around innovation. Now, I was out in Lynnwood. I had a chance to be out there for the course of Academy for Leadership and Innovation. Co facilitated that with Zandra Jo Galvin, who has just matriculate or will be matriculating out of the presidency from course. And she did a wonderful, wonderful job pitch and established in the CALSA Academy for Leadership and Innovation. But like I said, I was humbled because when I talk about my framework in my book, Intentional, Bold and Unapologetic A Guide to Transforming Schools and AC Stage of Education, when I see my framework in action, when you start applying the theoretical threads the way you want it to lead to the serial disruption of a divergent C of the traditional education experience for students. I saw that in Lynnwood, right? And I was humbled to actually see that when when I made and started this, because I’m not going to lie when I heard a 17 year old student giving their project or outlining the project to about 40 adults that they all did not know, her figure articulation lucid with the presentation. But more importantly, what impressed me because Alma, I like to say a computer science geek. The student was unwrapping his computer aided design his cad, and was talking about how he was creating in all Python time out way that I was like, No, I almost said I’m a fan. I am an absolute fan. The development of the robots and the coding and the algorithms that students were engaging in this is a stage of education because his prepared him, I like to say, for not just college ready, but career ready and digital ready right? So for my audience, can you highlight right because I always my my theory in my book is you need multiple micro innovations multiple year a processes one going on simultaneously to reach that level of matter disruption, architectural and serial designs, or discontinue was changed within my book, where now the experience look like what I saw in Lynwood. So just for my audience, can you highlight that process of you moving from traditional classrooms of pedagogy to now Students are real, or students have this real agency within their learning and they are developing these concepts through the problem. Find a problem seeking approach to solve, really to solve real world problems.
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Yes, I’m happy to. First and foremost, you know, you talk about this in your book. I want to say this about chapter four, and you talked about zip codes and how the redlining historical practices have always put our urban schools at a disadvantage. So under the leadership of my superintendent, he started the career check up technical pathways, educational pathways several years ago. We have eight and I have three more in the works. So after we decided that this is what we’re going to do, we then went and talked to our staff, found out one of our teachers who was actually a math teacher, actually had a degree in engineering. And well, when I tell you, if you some of that work you saw with the CAD, the coding, the robots, that’s all. So the experience and knowledge of our teacher, Mr. Uday, who took his kids to school USA for the first time, and one we’re so just absolutely proud and shout out to Mr. Uday, I want to give a shout out to I remember I met him, brother, you got it going on and keep that going. So, you know, part. So I’ll try to break you down. So the first thing is, is meeting students needs. You know, when you talk about the workforce and how it’s changing, especially after COVID. AC, right. And all the jobs that are going and still says that are going to be needed by our students to leave our system. So then you start getting the students engaged and, oh my God, when you wanted to computer science, when you wanted to the engineering class, the engagement was like it was so obvious it didn’t need to be explained. Right? But that comes because you got teachers who have a core belief that our kids can. So you got to have the belief, you got to undo all those traditional fixed mindsets and have the belief that, yes, there in an urban school, yes, test scores don’t always demonstrate a student’s capacity to learn. And if you distorted the data and you don’t get to the root cause analysis of why kids are not successful in school, you’ll just be on the hamster wheel right? So you got to take the deep dive into the data. You got to leverage student interests, you’ve got to engage students. You got a meal in home, the capacity, the craft and the talent of our teachers, because a lot of our teachers could do more than you think. Like, can you imagine Mr. Uday, who was a civil engineer, just teaching math, like, come on, you got to expand and refine what our teachers also bring. And even in our computer science class, that was a former English teacher who thought this is an opportunity. He went and self-learning self-taught and got certificated so that he can teach that computer science class. So you just got to change the system. And this is how I look at it. I think the Industrial Revolution was created an educational system where there were winners and losers. And I think the new system and its myriad of functions needs to be responsive to community and student needs, right? We see the needs, we see the market, and I think we have to no longer expect our students to replace respond to a system that doesn’t serve them. You got to create the system that serves them. And when you do that, that is when you’ll see that student engagement, that academic attainment, you’ll see all those things saw but you but you got to have a mindset that that’s possible and then you got to create the supports. So we have tutoring, we have mentorships. I’m proud to say in the fall we have a pilot entrepreneurship last that leads. Yeah. Agent Simmons the next that is it’s the next pathway for us is teaching kids out our own businesses how to operate. Oh write a business plan and you know, trying to get a partner to come in and get those apprenticeships and those internships to our kids. So I’ll be honest, it starts with mindset, but then I want to run for something in your book. When you do that big data dive, you got to have some comfortable conversation. Yes. So, Dr. Conner, they weren’t uncomfortable for me, but but keeping that in mind, they are comfortable for others because we’ve all benefited from a system that wasn’t designed for us.So you got to think outside the box like it worked for me. But I don’t want to be the exception. I want to be the rule. So how do I make kids academic attainment and success, the rule and not the in spite of so that that’s just really important. You got to look at your data, you got to talk to your collective community. You got to talk to parents about their expectations, you got to talk to students, you got to talk to teachers, you got to talk to your class, apply that. It takes everybody to make that innovation work. I know I said a lot.
Dr. Michael Conner
Oh, no, no, please hear about The thing is, I can look, I can I can listen to Nate like you had just unwrapped a variety of different things that I want to touch upon. But I think that, you know, one you this kind of goes back to where you’re at in California right now. It’s that you have successfully and Lynnwood your team has successfully really defined the first the first step in engineer design thinking empathy. Right. You started out by saying you have to listen to the various stakeholders and constituency within your district, within your organization. But kind of like this, you know, I like to say a line variant of expectations. Wow. That and I’m going to that’s going to be my kind of like my sub question going into it after I kind of summarize this, but think each sense and empathy, right. And get wow. You know, design thinking is is hearing or listening to your most important customers. I like to say students and families. Right. And community expectations, ensuring that all students aren’t all students. They’re this, you know, quote unquote, definition of quality. Define it to your specific context. And you’re right. Winners and losers within the industrial model. When I look at engagement versus compliant combined. Right. Because one thing that you highlighted and you know, this can be a controversial statement, albeit it can be grounded on multiple metrics that are out there, including summative state and federal metrics, is that I believe that students are losing their identity in the current design of the model W were dimming or dimming, I should say. Deming said that this the system is perfectly designed for the outcomes that is, get the outcomes that we’re getting or that we’re seeing is we’re seeing 54% of black and brown students that comprise a public education. But they had the L.A. to say this precipitous negative regression in multiple metrics outcomes, discipline and suspensions, exclusion, special education, whatever it may be, how do we now look at this model, this industrial model, differently? Because in theory, the theory of action, the value proposition, you have to and I think we’re at an inevitable state, we have to redesign the model comprehensively, strategically and deal with over time in the step function manner, because kids are losing their identity. 84% of public education are black and brown. The urgency around empathy and expectation. So we move towards engagement. What does that look like, Dr. Dinkins, from an equity lens?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Well, from an equity lens, give students what they need when they need it and not take it anything from anyone else. Right? And so if I say to you, I want you to climb Mount Everest, but I’m not going to give you anything to get to the top of that. Now, that is punitive. It is a gotcha and you’re setting kids up and studying it. So so going back to that model, all systems are designed to get a certain outcome. So there are definite flaws within our system. But in building empathy, that empathy leads right into relationships. See, my school experience wasn’t that of the school experience of the students and Lynwood. And it’s okay. It’s okay that I had a different experience. I think what matters is that I want what I had to be the norm. And I look at the kids and the students, the students and I’m sorry, the students and the staff and the teachers and I think to myself, oh, they are sorry. And I think to myself, if they were sitting in a classroom in Beverly Hills and they were sitting in a classroom in Palos Verdes, which I must be different about who you’re teaching, just just imagine if you had to teach your whole class asynchronously and you never saw the faces of your peers. Would you do something differently? So, see, those are the hard questions we have to ask ourselves because our kids deserve the best. So you start with that empathy. The way you keep identity is you tie in new learning to something students already know. That’s that’s the heartbeat. A cultural response to teaching. I forgot that the the the scientists who said in order to attain new learning, you have to attach it to something that is familiar already. And I’m not saying you got to split the curriculum honest here, but you do need to make the curriculum inclusive, inclusive, where kids see themselves. See, that’s identity, because we’d lost some of the art of storytelling. A lot of our history is not in books, believe it or not, in a lot of stuff in the books. It’s not exactly accurate.In art, you shouldn’t have to wait to college to learn about the Tulsa Black Wall Street and all those great things, right? So I’m not saying that that teaching kids about their identity is only in curriculum, but it’s in the relationship. And I don’t think you can have equity or empathy without a relationship that just knowing your students, but knowing what what their sweet spots are, right? Like if I asked student, What do you want to be when you grow up? And he tells me, I want to be an engineer and I know I ought to have the resource see that Mount Everest, Mount Everest is the engineer. So in my mind, the system needs to create that pathway to make sure that when that kid leaves us, they are equipped with the skill, the capacity and the interpersonal skill to go into the workforce and make a livable wage and take care of their families. But most importantly, here is the investment you want students this is why their experience in school is so important. Dr. Conner Because you want them to come back. See this? This is the part we all talk about adopted in communities like Lynwood. I don’t want you to go. I want you to go grow and come back and plant some more seeds. See, when our kids are sitting in English class and they see the five kids who are Lynwood alumni who are at Stanford right now getting their master’s degrees in various areas. That is the hope. And we used to say help is the strategy. No, it is. It all is is the lever of the change. And we got to give the kids all we got to keep them in their identity and we have to give them the resources to make those dreams a reality.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. You know, I’m going to use that Dr. Dinkins hope is the lever of change, right? Because, yes, I think that we have to have a lot of corporate a lot of hope into education. And when you were highlighting your students that Saturday morning, it was at the course academy and before my content session, we had a student panel, student led group of current with students and former. And this is when we talk about the relationships, right? Former students are former graduates of Lynnwood or Berkeley in high powered, high level engineering programs. I believe one student was at USC. It was, yeah, that I can’t remember. But obviously some of the top colleges across the country and what was great about it was their black and brown, right. And students who historically within the industrial model of the industrial design when we talk about the system, is perfectly designed for its outcomes. Those students, but not historically have been successful. They would have been excluded, but they defied the norms because of the leadership, because of the cost structure, the governance policies, as well as the practices that are being concretized. In Lynnwood. We’re seeing now that cycle being broken. But I think the broader question becomes, Dr. Dinkins, how do we now start mobilizing that those type of practices universally? So that the coalition is deep and the ecosystem universally, not in this ad hoc manner, but universally be applied in these specific with these specific practices? Relationships, relationships, relationships? I don’t think, Dr. Dinkins. We really take relationships as a foundational piece for fundamental change in education. What do you think?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Yes, I would say in expanding our ecosystem and then work, we wrote a grant that’s out talk about seeking moneys to do these things later, but we brought another grant where we are able to establish an alumni relations dinner. So talk about ecosystems that alumni there will be open on evenings and weekends. Hey, you Ball Yes. People in the Lynnwood community, they need to complete their fast but their college at it, they just need support because a lot of our students, you know, there was four square miles, a lot of our students that don’t know a lived experience outside of their city. So they get to Stanford and they get to Dartmouth and they get to some of those private colleges and institutions. And there are a little, dare I say, disconnected. So that is the connection to relationships, right? So now we have this resource where if I’m somewhere in I’m from Lynnwood and I need to talk to someone who’s what, this that there’s an alumni center I can call, I can, I could do a zoom with someone who’s an alumni. It’s going to be staffed with alumni. And the big project, which I had to do, is there are a lot of famous celebrities from Lynnwood, and I think that’s great. I need them to come back, donate and raise money so that we can keep the ecosystem going. But there are a lot of successful p h D kids out of Lynnwood, and those are the kids I need to come back. Those are the I love Matty to come back and plant some seeds. And so our and they look community that they’re so I had a kid ended up in our continuation school was a gang member I mean any in everything you could think you could put his name to it he just got his doctorate degree and he’s coming back as sowing the seeds. And so I live with community to say, you know what? It is never too late. This is a great place filled with resources. I can do it. You can do it, too. But is keeping that connection with those who have come out of the system and have found success so that we can keep building the success? See that the cost right? You don’t change a community by leaving. Like I say, I want you to go. I want you to grow. But you got to come back. And plants or seeds, it’s still the harvest up. So the harvest is plentiful at all and hot. And we create that on a national level. It’s in the is in those frameworks of disruption that as you as so eloquently written in your book, is in the frameworks of community schools, because in all of that is the disruption. I think when people hear disruption, they think rallies and protest and, you know, coming to board meetings and act in complete, you know what? But that’s not where change happens, right? Change happens in classrooms and change happens in systems. And I don’t begrudge those folks who are advocates. We need that, too. But if you’re talking about real disruption is the innovative practices and is changing the systems to support those practices, we don’t want it to be a gimmick. We are deeply rooted seeds in the ground so that long after Dr. Dinkins is gone, long after Dr. Crossley is gone, we have created a system where kids are supported. They know their identity, they’re confident in who they are, and they believe that they can do it. So we got to keep it going. But you don’t keep it going unless you create the system.
Dr. Michael Conner
Wow. Wow. And Dr. Dinkins, thank you. Right. For the kind words. And then also, I love your interpretation and definition of disruption because, you know, when I look at disruption and underscoring your statement within your answer, disruption is essentially two things. And one, it is exactly what you stated is not blowing up. The place is not to turn it upside down. And it didn’t. It really is assessing these meta drivers as signals for transformation or for fundamental change you’re assessing. Right. And that’s where you talk about using the data and this in this context of big data. And I like to say an exact that the banner for analysis where conversations and discussions are going to be uncomfortable because when you start unwrapping the data metrics to get to the to the root cause, you start looking at the genetics, the genetic structures and systems of a system to transform it. That’s when you have conversations around equity. But you are absolutely, absolutely correct with that because I want to get into the next question because it this basically under yes underpins this focus around expectations for students change in the culture and the mindset of an organization. But now is the time that we really have to start systematizing practices of equity excellence. This is an alignment to the excellence from my book. Those core elements, Neo and I always within my research that there is, if you can reach two or more of the elements within the excellence loop, you’re reaching this level of anti-matter realization where now you’re putting a focus on the historically excluded student groups. That right there, Dr. Dinkins, what I just said has just been negatively exploited, exploit it explicitly and implicitly within the ecosystem, to be honest, which you write, We have these great conversations, you and I, of how we can do that, right, how we can actually ensure that these practices work in a symbiotic manner within the ecosystem. But let’s be real. A lot of you address this or they look at it as not as it are. I already focus where Yes, Sportage is that one example that we’re facing, where we’re facing a lot of kind of jumps in education. But I think that was inevitable is that we have to be able to include an equity inclusive strategy even if we’re looking at the elements of the excellence loop. So if I’m a leader, Dr. Dinkins. Right. And I know I got to address this right, because the longer that we keep kicking the can down the road, I figured the issue once. So if I’m a leader, how do I prioritize excellence in equity work knowing that there will be negative forces and drivers that will attempt a stag gate B bottleneck and C, eliminate the next generation Z generation.
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Yeah, you know that that’s a tough one. I’ll be honest. When I’m on fire for the kids, which is 95%. Yeah, if you. I got you. Actually, you actually said something in your book that I live by, right? I care so much about kids. I tolerate adults. I love kids. That’s why I love the game and I love it. And it’s my sweet spot, my favorite place to be adult. You know? But the reality is the work is challenging. Now, I will say I’m blessed to be alive, but I don’t have protest and challenges to the work. I don’t. But zooming out in a global context, if you’re talking about changing the trajectory for Black and Brown students, we got to talk about the elephant in the room, and I think we have to I think a lot of policy is just about with school is from a national and local level have to change. I’ll give you an example. And this sells very petty, but I’m gonna give you an example, right? So after COVID, during COVID and after COVID in urban communities, they were lost one in 400 people. Now this is a community of 72,000, one in 400 died during COVID. So let me talk about the aftereffects of that. So what I’m living in about my generation or how the and I lost an uncle and adult. I didn’t just lose family. I lost two streams of income. Yeah. So see here now is the game changer because now I had to work during COVID to keep my family from being hungry and was an article that I still need to work. So now I’m still dealing with the grief and the trauma of losing loved ones. I now add the pressure and the burden to take care of my kids. You got the state. Say it. The kids need mental health. Give it to folks. But then you turn around and you punish the districts for chronic absenteeism. So I’m going to use that for a second because I think in innovation, we got to talk about these archaic policies, what the school tell need to look like versus what it is. Right. Why can’t there be? In your book, you talk about the SAT dignity and all the artificial intelligence and that of asynchronous and synchronous environments. We have to change the game. So what do we do for a kid who has a 4.0 but who needs to work, doesn’t want to miss Will? What’s their degree? What do we do for those kids? How do we change the system? Going back to that initial conversation to be responsive to the needs of kids? And it’s a it’s a scary conversation because a lot of power and a lot of status and political things would really have to change in the way that we do school. And it’s all rooted in money. How are we going to get Ada? How are we going to make sure that kids are getting an education while they work? But yet on the other side of it, we talking about the world of work and how important certain things are. So I think on a global level we have to keep pushing the conversation. I think the process most are distractions from the work. I think you got to be willing to lose your job. I’m not a superintendent yet, but I have to be willing to lose my job. So, I mean, I guess that is the real change you have to you have to do. I think people fight because they want to be right. And I’m more focused on doing the right thing for kids. And I think that’s where the disengagement and the dissonance starts, because what I think is the right thing for kids may not align with someone else’s values or importance about what the right thing for kids is, But it’s you got to do the right things for kids. You got to listen to the practitioners. We’re the ones in the classrooms with them. We’re the ones we’re seeing the needs. You know, your kids are in school 6 to 8 hours a day with adults who try to know that, who they talk to about their issues. And so we have to find flaws that the opportunity gaps you talk about performance gaps in your framework, but we also have to close opportunity gaps. We have to close access gaps and we’ll support you. Take care of those states. It closes those targets. Yes. But we just I wish I had a succinct, concise, a clear answer. But I think you just gotta keep it in that good trouble.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely does a good job. It was good trouble and is great to see that. Yes, we got to steer right of food is out. But you highlighted on, I think, a critical notion that will actually start this. I like to say, met eruption process. Right in some of these megatrends in education differently is around policy and once we start unwrapping policy at the national, state and local levels, then we’ll be able to move from that innovation to equity. I love the attendant, the attendance, a chronic absenteeism example, because this is what I have been advocating for, and I think that is going to be come inevitable, just like we saw some of these new practices. I like innovation size of businesses may incorporate in education. But what I really like about this is that you provide a clear example of how policy, even though it is meant to increase role, will be implicitly it is exacerbating inequities. As an example, school attendance, the current construct in the design, as we talk about, is time, place and learning are triangulated and integrated, meaning Dr. Dinkins. Dr. Conner It doesn’t matter. You know, your home condition. It doesn’t matter. You know, when we talk about blows the level taxonomy or rigor, it doesn’t matter when it comes to Maslow, you and I have to be in school at this certain hour, learning the same day at the same place. But in the stage of education, if we truly want to meet this level equity excellence, time learning and place have to not be integrated or triangulated but looked at as each individual entity for a student to meet his or her needs from that level. Equity meaning work round day this and these new variables in this model where equal needs are being met, not necessarily. Dr. Dinkins We might have the same time right for learning. We might have it at a different learning space based off of our interest that generates engagement. And then when we talk about place, yes, we’ll meet at the same place with school. But also there are different other environments where that learning is taking place at various times. I hope we get there, Dr. Dinkins, because if we’re we have the ability, we’re seeing element. I saw elements of it in Linwood, but you know, it has to go beyond the confines of Linwood and it has to go across to 49 other states that we have within the country. So I can talk all day about that tie place, learning to integrate in the agency, but that’s another episode. But Dr. Dinkins, last question. Right, last question did take it as it is. Break the rules. Good trouble on this question. Okay. But okay. What three words. What? Just three words. Now, again, like I said, take it as it is. Gotcha. Well, I’m always saying three words, but do it with do what you need to do. But what three words to every leader need to be successful in the AC stage of education, in the context of leadership, innovation and equity for change. What three words do you want today’s audience to leave with regard and equity for systemic change in the AC stage of education?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
Oh, okay. I thought about this all night, but I don’t know if this is going to be powerful, but the first word that comes is intentional. Yes. Then what has been very intentional 2017 Removing all barriers to the prerequisites for AP classes so that that’s disruption. You know what I’m saying? So intentionality be strategic. And in alignment with bold encourage, be bold. You have to have Mt. Everest, Mount Everest, the least that kids can no matter what. So strategic, intentional, belief.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And you know, Dr. Dinkins, I’m one to another one I want to take yeah I said on my tape, hope is the lever for change and I’m going to take this one. You got to have Mal Everest believe at right there and here’s expectations in the in the loop A captures access because you change the mindset of an organization. You change the mindset of the stakeholders that operationalize and optimize. I like to next practices moving beyond best practices and and a teacher learning organization. That’s where now you’re going to start leading to meeting the needs of all students. So Dr. Shawna Dinkins, thank you. You made it through VFE.
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
I’m so happy you had me on. I hope that I was of service to what it is we’re trying to do professional development wise for our folks in education. And, you know, I do believe post-COVID, I may be retired by the time we finish unraveling it, but I want my legacy to be a blessing to others. And so any of your listeners who want to visit and would have a roundtable conversation about how to get started, I want to offer their word as a place for them to come and learn all about the wonderful things we’re doing and how we’re working diligently to make these things systemic, and not one off things for our children and families.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And Dr. Dinkins, I would say, between you and Dr. Crossley, is just have been just absolutely phenomenal. I’m just going back to some of the stuff and yes, please. You know, I consider Lynwood Unified a learning laboratory or a learning X work education leaders for classroom teachers, for central office administrators. Because the level of innovation that is in Lynwood applies to the economic demands. So you would see not only relationships being undergirded, but also relevancy in the context of developing our students. For what I like to say, Delta 2030. And when we talk about moving towards equity, Lynwood with regards to the equity work and you have to check out their social justice standards, you know, and theory it, you just incorporate those social justice standards to redesign the structures and systems within education. You will automatically get innovation and accelerate it at this initial level. So please reach out to Dr. Dinkins as well as my sister. Man, with the conversation we had I know I said, Doc, I’m getting you on. I’ll get you on a quick what is because my listeners need this but from the bottom of my heart that they just thank you so much for being or be at the end just really fast if they do want to visit you, how will they be able to reach you or should they go through your executive assistant, Jessica?
Dr. Shawna Dinkins
So my executive assistant is Jessica Salazar. Two ways to reach me where you always get a response. The first one is via email. So SDinkins@myLUSD.org. That’s number one. And then our phone number in Lynwood is (310)886-1600 ext 8092. Or you can just ask for educational services and we are happy to serve. We want all black and brown students to experience the great things that are happening in Lynwood, not just in our state but across our country. So we’re happy to serve and support and I am beyond honored that I am in the great company of the Dr. Michael Conner and our admin. We will be using excerpts from your book for some of our professional development this upcoming year in Lynwood. I’ll make you more famous how about that?
Dr. Michael Conner
Well, that’s it or I’ll take anything I can these days. Dr. Dinkins, that means so much to me coming from you, the people you associate with at USC, you know, working closely with Dr. Niguera, seeing the work that you’re doing, being a highlighted in California for it’s just an honor to have you on here, to consider you, my sister, and to consider you my friend and to work. We’re going to keep on doing it. So, onward and upward, everybody. Thank you for joining us. Have a great evening.
