The Rural Advantage Nobody Names

Michael Conner: [00:00:00] Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, and welcome to another episode of Voices for Excellence. I am your host, Dr. Michael Conner, CEO and founder of the Agile Evolutionary Group, and also co-founder of AEG Systems. And today's guest is someone I absolutely adore. I went to my first NREA conference that was in Utah last year, and I got to sit on a panel with Dr.

Michael Conner: Melissa Sadorf, and it was just such a compelling conversation. But more importantly, Dr. Sadorf, I wanna tell you, the NREA conference was absolutely phenomenal. And to my audience, if you have not attended NREA conference, please make sure, it's nine weeks away. We're gonna talk about when that is gonna be happening and what to expect and some of the great sessions as well as the workshops and keynote presenters that are there, that will be there, in, uh, in the short nine weeks.

Michael Conner: It's gonna be faster than you think. [00:01:00] But yes, we have, I, I call her a superstar. She certainly is. Dr. Melissa Sadorf, who is the executive director for the National Rural Education Association, known across the country as the NREA. We have her here. We're gonna be unpacking everything rural as also everything education.

Michael Conner: So Dr. Sadorf, it is so good to see you virtually. I'll see you soon in person. 

Melissa Sadorf: Excellent. 

Michael Conner: But glad to have you on Voices for Excellence. 

Melissa Sadorf: Thank you so much, Michael. It is a pleasure to be here, and I'll tell you what, you are hired. You can be my PR manager anytime. Just let me know when you wanna come on board, 'cause I don't know if I could've done a better pitch job for our conference.

Michael Conner: Oh, man. I remember when I first started the podcast series, and somebody was like, "You should just start a podcast." I'm like, "First of all, I'm not Montel Williams. I don't know anything about, you know, really controlling an audience and controlling conversation." They were like, "Just have a conversation [00:02:00] and everything."

Michael Conner: So I think I mi- I think I missed my calling on being a great hype man for a- You might have ... a singer or somebody. But yeah, no, Dr. Sadorf, it is so good to have you on. I know we talked about this when we were in Utah at the NREA conference, but to be able to get this accomplished this year, your busy schedule, my busy schedule, just finding time to be able to do this, especially being a part of our Back to School series right here in September.

Michael Conner: We know that schools have already started already in August, but, you know, to have this as a full kickoff, this is great. So but I wanna ask you a few questions, and it's really a geek-out. 

Melissa Sadorf: Hey, I'm ready. 

Michael Conner: It's really a geek. Guys, it's, I always like to say it's a non-traditional podcast because it's a podcast that's all predicated on geeking out.

Michael Conner: So let's geek out with this. But Dr. Sadorf, as the leading voice for the National Rural Education Association, better yet, I'll even say this objectively or subjectively, the leading voice for rural education. For those that do not know Dr. Melissa Sadorf, what [00:03:00] song describes your leadership signature in the education ecosystem?

Melissa Sadorf: You know, I, I love this question, and I love that we start with it because I will geek out with you any time over music, but I have to say it's I Won't Back Down by Tom Petty. Not because leadership is about being stubborn, but because I th- I think that rural schools, who I represent, really have spent a century being told to consolidate or to wait our turn or to be grateful for whatever is, is left over after the big systems get served.

Melissa Sadorf: So my whole leadership signature is really about refusing that premise. I, I don't think that rural kids get enough visibility, and I think that Tom Petty's line about refusing to, to lose ground, that standing your ground on the gates of hell is honestly where a rural superintendent's Tuesday really l- lives.

Melissa Sadorf: So that's, that's my song for you. 

Michael Conner: Yeah, and Dr. Sadorf, I'm glad you brought that up, right? Because this was [00:04:00] one of the, the, the m- the, this was the logic for you to come on to Voices for Excellence because I think that rural education, specifically rural districts, rural schools do not get that attention as you stated, the visibility.

Michael Conner: And to my audience, I don't know if you know, there's a, a, a misconception that, you know, large urbans or urban districts are the largest in public charter education across the country. But if we think about it, rural school districts across the country is the biggest cohort in education in North America.

Michael Conner: And a lot of people did not know that specific data point. I'm like, yeah, no, it's not urban education, it's not the urban institutions that dominate the students across education holistically in the United States, it, our rural schools. And I always, I, I, and, and there's this disjunction, Dr. Sadorf, and hopefully we can be able to clarify it, is that we have the biggest population in [00:05:00] education, but they're still fighting for resources, the scarcity of resources in our rural schools and rural districts and the biggest population.

Michael Conner: I, I, that disjunction or that tension, uh, hopefully we can be able to unpack and clarify and advocate for these students as well. But I really loved how you said, "I won't back down," because every single rural leader, every single rural teacher, every single rural collaborative engaging in you, there's that consistency of, you know what?

Michael Conner: We're gonna continue to fight for our students, fight for rural education, fight for the visibility, and moreover, to ensure that we are getting what we need to be successful like the urban institutions, like the suburban institutions or suburban districts that we see with that. But I wanna talk about your book, Dr.

Michael Conner: Sadorf the Resilient Rural Leader. I just absolutely love the title of it. You wrote about rising to the challenges of rural education. Now, during this era [00:06:00] of rapid change in education, we saw, I always like to classify it in the BC, DC, and AC stage, before COVID, during COVID, and after COVID. We saw in b- in the BC stage rural educators, rural leaders, rural districts really fighting for resources.

Michael Conner: Now we have this raptivity of change, of transformation that we're seeing both in our economy and in education. But when we speak about this specifically, how do rural leaders address the challenges, but at the same time maintain that perspective of opportunity? 

Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. You know, that's, that's such a, a great question, and I, I think I wanna start by laying the foundation that rural communities have always seen the school as the, the center, the hub of that community.

Melissa Sadorf: Typically, they're the largest employer, they're the largest purchaser, they're where healthcare is accessed. They're an emergency shelter during a crisis. I mean, I just had a, a conversation with a woman that lives in Eastern Kentucky, and they're having [00:07:00] flooding and, and massive flooding, and where people gathered when they lost their homes was the school.

Melissa Sadorf: It is the only building in the whole town that, you know, i- is, is walked into voluntarily by everyone in the community. So it's, it's, it's not a metaphor that they are truly the heart of that community. Um, when a rural s- uh, school makes a decision, it's really making a decision that affects the whole ecosystem, whether it's labor policy or housing or economic development, and, and, and that's different than it is in a, in a large school system or a, a, an, a su- suburban system.

Melissa Sadorf: And, and that, I think, makes it a unique place to, to operate, whether you're talking about structuring services for the community, um, or if you're talking about, you know, being the anchor institution for your CTE programming and being that workforce development engine in the community so that students that leave your [00:08:00] doors after high school have a road to stay home and, and not have to leave, uh, and still be able to get a living wage.

Melissa Sadorf: So I, I think that there is both challenge and opportunity that is all wrapped up into that. 

Michael Conner: Yeah. And, you know, a- as you were unpacking your answer, Dr. Sadorf, one thing that I kept going back to was my partnership with Mescalero, Mescalero Municipal District that's in New Mexico. Shout out to Johnna, who's the superintendent that's out there.

Michael Conner: And one of the things as I was working with her and working with Mescalero, I noticed that, and this was again me expanding my capacity about rural education, is how that is the centralized hub for everything, right? Everything was centralized around what Mescalero was doing, the decisions that Johnna was making and her team were making as well impacted a community in totality.

Michael Conner: And I'm like, wow, [00:09:00] you know, it, it's not just isolated challenges within a rural district. It is a, a, a shared interdependent challenge that they're addressing, but the opportunities, it's like all boats rise with that. I loved how you said that, you know, it is the largest employer, right? And when we think about being the largest employer, the largest employer always impact the economic threads of that community as 

Michael Conner: well.

Michael Conner: So challenge and opportunity, I always like to say, you know, what's that equilibrium? But we really see it elevated within rural communities. But Dr. Sadorf, you, I, I can, I can say this, and I'm happy to say this on VFE, you are the executive director of the oldest national education organization in the country.

Michael Conner: I was like, ooh, th- I don't want that type of responsibility. But, you know what I'm saying? It, it- 

Melissa Sadorf: And don't mess it up. That's what the, the board says. No, they don't say that, but I [00:10:00] say it to myself. Yes, I have a, I have a large responsibility to make sure that this amazing institution that's been around since 1907 continues to grow and thrive 

Michael Conner: Absolutely.

Michael Conner: Since 1907, the National Rural Education Association has been operationalized and having great impact. But Dr. Sadorf, you know, fast-forward to you under your leadership. This is your third year now, I believe, in this, in this role as well. No, 

Melissa Sadorf: I'm just finishing my first. I know it seems like it's been three years, but no, it's only been a year.

Michael Conner: It's only been a year. Well, well, after year one, this question is so appropriate then. So after year one as the executive director of NREA, I know you're still like, "Wow, you know, ED of NREA, the old organization in the country." But what are the goals? And I know that you're still refining, adapting those goals, testing them out in year one, moving into year two, doing some constant iteration to what those goals and objectives are.

Michael Conner: But [00:11:00] what are the goals and vision mandates of the NREA that need to be accomplished this year in the '26, '27 academic year? 

Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. I love this question. My board and I, when I first came on board, actually did some strategic planning together, and the board adopted the first five-year strategic plan that was built directly from member and affiliate input.

Melissa Sadorf: Included in that, alongside our first annual report in NREA's history that just came out last month, and, and both of those really signal what I hope is seen a- as transparency. So, you know, if we're gonna be asking policymakers to trust rural schools with resources, we have to make sure that we're modeling that ourselves.

Melissa Sadorf: So there are five goals, and I'll just give them to you quickly. The first is to grow and diversify our membership so that the voice that we carry to Washington is demonstrably the field's voice and not just our opinion on the executive board or as, as the director, what I think about it. It needs to reflect our membership's [00:12:00] voices.

Melissa Sadorf: The second is to strengthen our 40-plus state affiliates. Those people are, are doing work within their states, uh, boots on the ground, because rural policy is really truly made in state houses a- at least as much as it is in Congress with federal work. That state level advocacy is so important, and we need to support them in, in what they're doing.

Melissa Sadorf: The third is to diversify our revenue beyond the conference. Yes, we have an amazing conference, and I hope we get a chance to dive into that a little bit, but it is really our only source of revenue outside membership right now. So advocacy capacity does not rise and fall with one event. We need to make sure that we're a little bit more protected i- in our bottom line than that.

Melissa Sadorf: The fourth is to establish NREA as a standing federal voice. We've visited more than 60 congressional offices this past year, and the goal is, is to move from visiting really to being called when there's a rural issue at the table. [00:13:00] And then the last is really to develop and build professional learning designs with rural context at the center.

Melissa Sadorf: So not big district PD with the word rural pasted on it, but actually specifically designed for rural practitioners. So those are the things that I've been tasked with standing up. Those are not going to happen in a year. Those are our longer term goals, but we are certainly making inroads into ensuring that those things are starting to happen.

Michael Conner: Yeah. And Dr. Sadorf, I can tell you just by the work that you're underscoring and the work that NREA is underscoring, I can see several of the strategies that fall into the goal buckets that are being applied. One of the things that I'm like, "Wow, this is great," and I said this to myself intrinsically, is how you are being so deliberate and intentional to make sure that rural education is a part of the broader national discussion, even at the federal level.

Michael Conner: I know that you have been engaging in a [00:14:00] variety of different activities at the federal level, and I already see the association of goal one and goal four, knowing about the strength in the state affiliates. Yes, I tell you, the state affiliates that I see across the country are definitely advocating and have a strong voice out there.

Michael Conner: Diversifying the revenue. So one, I want to just be able for you to, A, the main revenue generator, which is the conference, if you could be able to talk about that, give my audience some dates. And then also, two, possibilities for that goal three around professional learning. I think that specifically in the rural context, right?

Michael Conner: How do out, you know, outside of, let's say the N- the NREA affiliates or NREA membership, of someone like me or someone like my audience or individuals like my audience, how would they get engaged with professional learning activities that has that rural underpinning and the principles of learning to be able to support rural education?

Melissa Sadorf: Yeah, love this question. So the National Forum to Advance Rural Education [00:15:00] is our conference that happens once a year. This year it's in San Antonio in October, the 19th through the 21st down on the River Walk, and you can go to nrea.net and get more information about the conference. Registration is still open, and we'd love to have you there.

Melissa Sadorf: Um, some of the things that we're standing up as far as professional learning, we have a national rural principal fellowship that has already launched, and we are looking for applications. That group of, of up to 30 leaders is who we're going to start this process with, is actually going to start their fellowship at the NFARE conference where they get a chance to meet each other in person as well as the facilitators.

Melissa Sadorf: Uh, we've got two amazing women out of Appalachia University who are also the affiliate directors for North Carolina. Nancy Magnum and Theresa Gibson are the two that are putting that fellowship together, and they'll be facilitating all year. So we'll start at the conference in October. They'll have some virtual meetings during the year where they'll dive into a [00:16:00] bunch of different topics that are rural specific and, and needed by the field.

Melissa Sadorf: We've surveyed our members, and they've told us what they need information around and what they need support around, so we've built the fellowship to reflect that. And then they'll have a capstone project that they'll be revealing at the NFARE conference next year in 2027 in Albuquerque So they'll round it out with another opportunity to get together in person.

Melissa Sadorf: And so it's doing things like that. We're also looking at potentially doing the same kind of programming for superintendents, for women in rural leadership, doing something with them. And really, it, it, Michael, it's a, it's a, it's really important to hear from the field what do they need us to stand up.

Melissa Sadorf: And so we are being responsive to what we're hearing from our members, because that's when it's best. That's when there's a synergy about what we're providing and what they actually need, and that means that we're hitting the mark. I don't wanna put something out that really isn't gonna resonate with the field.

Michael Conner: Yeah. And Dr. Sadorf, [00:17:00] a true practitioner's mindset and the application and practice of how you're getting, how you're getting your information from the field, the voice, really truly taking that design thinking approach, that first principle, which is empathy, really having a true need or understanding the needs of your core constituency, understanding the needs of what I like to say your most important customers who are with the NREA, which are your leaders, your teachers, all the above, your stakeholders, that represents this, this wonderful conglomerate.

Michael Conner: So really with that, and please support the national conference that's gonna be h- held at San Antonio this year, the 19th to the 21st of October. And then wow, I, I'm looking forward to 2028, or is ... Right, right, 2027, I should say, in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So San Antonio and Albuquerque. Okay, I, I already got my I already got my itinerary ready for that, but- Y- Dr.

Michael Conner: Sadorf, you've been in education for over [00:18:00] 30 years, lived a multitude of different positions within the ecosystem, or I should say within the sector in itself, your approach with how you're designing strategies within your strategic plan, taking the voice of our practitioners. Now let's go back to actually living in the field, right?

Michael Conner: Where we often know rural superintendents, I remember Joanna. Joanna had about 10 different hats on that she was wearing, you know, in Mascara working with her intimately. But we know rural superintendents often have to navigate with multiple roles within their learning organization. The sharing staff, you know, is a common practice.

Michael Conner: Resources, you know, partnerships, strategic partnerships. I'm saying this, and I'm gonna say this objectively, right? Rural leaders in rural districts are the most innovative and creative individuals that I know because you have to be able to be innovative and creative because of the scarcity of resources.

Michael Conner: But in the context of cross-sector and [00:19:00] interdisciplinary partnerships, Dr. Sadorf, what approaches that rural superintendents and districts should embark upon to deepen the level of innovation and creativity with the scarcity of resources that are available to this very important sector? 

Melissa Sadorf: Well, I wanna start with what you said, and, and your friend Joanna is living.

Melissa Sadorf: Everybody frames multiple hats and, and that is a thing, and they frame it as a burden. And I, I would say some days absolutely it's like, whoa, I cannot fit one more hat on my head. But here's what nobody says, and that is that the rural superintendent is the only person in American education that sits at the intersection of transportation and nutrition and health and workforce and broadband and instruction, and has the authority to act on all six at one time.

Melissa Sadorf: In a large system, that is six departments and they're gonna need a memo. But in a rural district, it's one person and one decision, which means things can move quickly Four approaches that I think are worth naming. The first one is stop partnering for [00:20:00] programs and partner for capacity. So a one-year grant-funded program leaves when the grant does, but, you know, whether it's a shared position or a joint contract or a co-op agreement, that can change your cost structure permanently.

Melissa Sadorf: So, you know, ask of every partnership that you're going into, does this still exist in a year without new money? And if it does, then that's what you wanna move forward with. The second thing I would say is that regionalize the scarce role, not the school. So y- you know, we-- there's a lot of talk about closures and consolidations, and that can kill a rural conversation before you, you-- it even starts, and it should.

Melissa Sadorf: But when you're sharing a special education director or a CTE instructor or a grants manager across five districts, that's not consolidation. It's, it's how you get a specialist in your community who you could never f- afford alone, right? And it keeps your town with a school and its Friday night lights [00:21:00] The third approach I would, I would recommend would be to go outside of education entirely.

Melissa Sadorf: I think some of our strongest recent partnerships for NREA are not with education organizations. They're with the National Grange or with broadband coalitions or with health systems. And rural problems are not education problems that happen in, in the country. They're community problems that may potentially show up at the school first.

Melissa Sadorf: So look outside of education for those partners. And then the last thing, Michael, is to use your proximity to employers as curriculum, not as a field trip, but you know, the hospital or the co-op or the utility, the tribal enterprise. In a rural community, the superintendents can call the CEO directly because they have those kinds of relationships, and that's a design asset that urban districts are spending millions to try to recreate.

Melissa Sadorf: So you know that the, the constraint is real, but [00:22:00] I, I think that, that those approaches are really going to be game changers if you take a look at how you can operate just a little bit differently. 

Michael Conner: Yeah. And Dr. Sadorf, what I love about it is you really gave a nice, succinct answer that unpacks opportunity and challenge, right?

Michael Conner: We know that there's challenges there, but to have that direct impact, to have that, I like to say direct hand on the multitude of different, quote-unquote, departments that we see in urban districts, suburban districts, d- you're right, the acceleration process is so much faster because you're avoiding bottlenecks and the bureaucracy doesn't necessarily get in the way.

Michael Conner: I love what you said, and this resonates with me, and I, I, I want you to just unpack this just a little further. Stop partnering for programs, but partner with capacity. And I remember I was on the National American Rescue Plan Committee And this [00:23:00] was during the time of the pandemic where we were reviewing basically district plans of how they were gonna spend the ESSER funding.

Michael Conner: And I remember one meeting, this was years ago, Dr. Sadorf, where there was roughly, I believe about 60, 60, uh, it was up to about 60, 70 per- I can't remember the exact number, but 60 to 70% of districts nationwide were putting heavily investing in people, right? You have the sustainability if we're investing in people where we had so many candid discussions around how do we invest in capacity, which will be able to give us the organization or academic return on investment.

Michael Conner: Where if we just invest in program people, ultimately when the money dry, the monies dry up, the programs and the people are gonna have to be eliminated, i.e. this kind of fiscal cliff that we're seeing or we have been seeing within the past two to three years. [00:24:00] Dr. Sadorf, how do we move kind of like that educational cultural dimension from investing in programs people, obviously I'm not saying we don't invest in programs at all, but strategically invest in programs, but truly put the real investment in capacity?

Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. And obviously I'm gonna answer it from a rural lens, but it might have capacity building opportunity for suburban and urban. I, I will say that the binding constraint is rarely imagination and it's rarely willingness. It's time and it's people. And a superintendent who's also the transportation director and the Title IX coordinator does not have a spare Thursday to build a cross-sector coalition.

Melissa Sadorf: So the honest answer to how do we innovate with scarce resources includes this. It, it includes some of it we can't do alone, and that's exactly what associations and affiliates and regional service agencies and those other partnerships that we create exist for. [00:25:00] So you, you've gotta look beyond your, your four walls.

Melissa Sadorf: You gotta blow out those four walls and get beyond the school building and really tap into the people and the institutions and the organizations that are around you, whether they're in your community or they're in your region or they're in your state. Thinking differently and broadly about where can you build capacity for yourself so that there is sustainability at the end of the day 

Michael Conner: Absolutely.

Michael Conner: And Dr. Sadorf, you have highlighted what I've been try- what I've been saying we need to do in public education, right? We need to think differently. We need to find strategic partnerships that are outside the education ecosystem and be the lean to be able to accelerate and elevate innovation and creativity.

Michael Conner: So now, Dr. Sadorf, I wanna talk about this with rural education and our new generational learners, generational, uh, generation alpha. Now, I, it, it, it's, it's, it's funny you say this because I [00:26:00] went through, I, I did a, a keynote workshop where I went through the exercises of the generational transitions in the BC, DC, and AC stage, and how we support generation alpha and beta, who we just welcomed last year, in this new AC 2035.

Michael Conner: And rural education and generation alpha First AI natives, Generation Beta, are considered the quantum natives. Now, rural education and rural leaders already has a strong baseline around innovation and creativity and being able to have what I like to say this adaptive model, but an underscoring leadership principle of being lean, right?

Michael Conner: But when we think about this AC 2035, the context of future of the world and the future of the work, how does leadership and systems design need to look differently for a Generation Alpha in this rural context, and what does that mean for leadership [00:27:00] and professional development as you talked about professional learning in the context of building capacity in alignment with these evolving economic shifts?

Melissa Sadorf: I, I'm gonna break this down into three different buckets, and the first one is the kids. I, I think that the, the risk for rural students in the AI era is not that they lack access to the tools, because I think access is closing faster than people think. I think the risk is that they're trained as consumers of systems designed for somewhere else, for an economy somewhere else.

Melissa Sadorf: And so when they leave, the talent leaves with them. I mean, the question that I care about is whether or not a 15-year-old rural student can use-- is not whether she can use AI. It's she can, and she can probably use it better than most of the adults in the building. I think the question is whether she can build it, build with it here in this rural place and make a living doing it without having to take a U-Haul to somewhere else.

Melissa Sadorf: So that's, that's what my concern is. Rural [00:28:00] places are, are a place where AI should be thriving, and we need to make sure that we're standing up something so that it can. The second thing I think is it, to your point, systems design. So, you know, design for the, the, the one of one teacher is important. So in a, in a rural high school, there's one physics teacher or maybe none, and any system that designs that's assuming departments or PLCs of six teachers or instructional coaches is not a rural design.

Melissa Sadorf: It's just not. And so AI's promise, I think, here is really to be a capacity multiplier for those singleton teachers. I, I think that treating connectivity as instructional infrastructure is a way to look at it and not just the IT department or the guy that's down there, and he'll fix your computer when it's not working.

Melissa Sadorf: Um, but, but the real concern is that no AI strategy survives a home with no broadband, and we still have access [00:29:00] issues, and that's why NREA is really in broadband coalition work. We still have kids that are not connected. And then mo- the, the third thing is professional learning, to your point. And rural PD fails for structural reasons, not because they don't want the PD, not because they have a disregard for it, but you can't pull a teacher for three days when there's no substitute within 60 miles.

Melissa Sadorf: So the professional development has to be job embedded, it has to be asynchronous, and it has to be available in 20-minute pieces because that teacher is not only teaching during the day, but they're coaching and potentially driving the bus home. So, you know, that's something that I think is, is, is something that people need to understand.

Melissa Sadorf: I mean, when your, your nearest colleague teaching your subject is two districts away, you have to build a system or a network intentionally so that it, it, that PD can happen in a way that's fruitful for all that are involved. So that's, that's precisely why we're, you know, [00:30:00] developing professional learning that's designed with a rural context at the, at the center.

Melissa Sadorf: Um, that adaption has to happen 

Michael Conner: Yeah, absolutely. I, I, I love your answer with that, and I'm gonna steal this from you, Dr. Sadorf, one of one, right? And having AI be a capacity multiplier. I, I, I concur with that. It's just, you know, Dr. Sadorf, rural educators and rural leaders, institutions, you know, just the, the level of innovation and, you know, an example that you provided that AI is a capacity multiplier where we're seeing how our rural leaders are executing this because, yes, I was, uh, uh, Melissa, I was shocked when I heard that, oh yeah, the next closest district to us is 50 miles away.

Michael Conner: I'm like, "What?" Like g- it- I was just completely appalled when I was hearing that, and they're like, yeah, we have to think outside of the box in order to [00:31:00] be able to create sustainability or sustainable systems within our district. And the one of one, I have been seeing many of that, but the creativity that is embedded for that.

Michael Conner: And then also, too, there-- And I just want you to expand on this. Every single rural leader, every single rural district I talk to, and I fell in love with this because I'm like, "Man, you know, did I miss out on something?" But they talk about the importance of preparing students to support their community.

Michael Conner: Community is their o- overarching focus of, this is our community. We love it. We wanna continue to expand on it. We wanna be able to build the next generation of students to be able to continue the work and to push the work that beyond of what we're doing right now. E- every leader I talk to that's a rural school leader talks about that.

Michael Conner: Elaborate and unpack that for me because I think it's just so fascinating. How is it where now community becomes so [00:32:00] important, so grounded in everything that you, uh, that you do in rural education? 

Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. You know, that place-based approach is something that is just a, an integral part of what's going on in a, in a rural school around professional development.

Melissa Sadorf: That, that centering of what the community means to the school and what the school means to the community because you cannot separate the two. And, and, and, and if you tried, it's, it's going to fail. So, you know, ensuring that, that what is being put out there for professional learning or for student development is i- it's an honest advantage really for a rural place because we don't have necessarily the luxury of central office telling us what to adopt.

Melissa Sadorf: People on the ground are making those calls, and they're gonna make sure that whatever is being put in front of those kids is what they need, and that means that they're gonna be asking for what they need. Um, they're gonna build their own expertise around what the, the needs of, of that particular building or that particular grade level is, [00:33:00] and build the structure around it.

Melissa Sadorf: So, uh, you know, the alignment that I, that I would argue for as a rural practitioner is between professional learning and economic agency, to your point. You know, they're part of that, that engine, and, and not just can our graduates work in the AI economy, but can our teachers and our leaders read what's happening out in the community, and then redesign a program to respond to it, and stand up professional learning around that?

Melissa Sadorf: And in a, in a rural district, the superintendent certainly has the capacity, as do the principals, to be able to do that in a, in a very different kind of way. 

Michael Conner: Yeah. Yeah. And Dr. Sadorf, I have seen this. Like I said, I've worked, worked with John Adas down in New Mexico, and then also a rural district in New York, and I just see that systemic alignment.

Michael Conner: Two different, fundamentally different parts of the country, same absolute focus. So, and I wanna expand on this question. It's pertaining [00:34:00] to goal, it's pertaining to goal four, which is around the federal voice, right? And then using goal one, which is around the growing the membership and the voice from the field.

Michael Conner: And we know that NREA, right, they're, you're, you're heavily involved. And all that I know that there's goals and associated s- uh, strategies with that, heavily involved with the federal government. And we're staying, and I just wanna just concentrate on this specific slither within the education ecosystem, which is around artificial intelligence, because it's dominating the conversation.

Michael Conner: I was, I was at a conference, Dr. Sadorf, where the keynote was there, and then my-- then I was speaking after that, and there was a contentious debate within the keynote, spe- especially from the superintendents of the state, where they were proposing legislation to ban AI in schools. I'm like, well, they spend up to three-plus hours outside of the school confines on [00:35:00] some type of artificial intelligent or, um, a t- intelligence system or some type of disruptive technology.

Michael Conner: But if the NREA could shape one piece of the national conversation around AI policy to protect rural schools and their interests in this specific AC stage, what would it be? And why should policymakers keep this at the forefront of every vote in the context of the rural school environments, rural school districts, and then more importantly, the whole conglomerate of NREA?

Melissa Sadorf: Just one thing, huh, Michael? If I could change one thing, I think it would be the delivery mechanism. When you think about it, almost every federal AI education dollar right now moves through competitive grants, and that sounds fair, but it's not. A competitive grant is a test of, of whether you've got a grant writer.

Melissa Sadorf: In large districts, you do have grant offices. My members [00:36:00] are those that have a superintendent who also is the curriculum director and is writing that application. I've done it, but they're writing that application at nine o'clock at night after the board meeting. So the money flows to the systems that already have capacity, and then five years later we hold a panel about the, why there's a rural AI gap that federal policy just spent five years creating.

Melissa Sadorf: So the fix really, I think, is a formula-based or set-aside distribution for districts that are under a, a defined enrollment threshold, like 1,000 students or less or, or 500 students or less, so that rural access doesn't depend on grant writing capacity. And I also think that a, a rural impact review on federal AI education through rulemaking, the same way that we review for other populations, is important, and it should happen before it's launched, not after.

Melissa Sadorf: After the horse leaves the barn is not the time to do that. And connectivity is, is treated as a precondition [00:37:00] of any AI mandate and, and don't require what you haven't enabled. 

Michael Conner: And Dr. Sadorf, and the reason I asked this question was because, you know, a lot of the policy discussions that I've been into, engaged with at the federal level, I, I always say we need more, and this was because I met with you, Dr.

Michael Conner: Sadorf, met with, and, you know, I have some great leaders that I work side by side with in rural context, and I don't hear enough of the conversation that includes rural students and rural education within the conversation. And there's a lot of people that listens to Voices for Excellence, so hopefully we get that out there.

Michael Conner: And I know a part of goal four, you're gonna continue that work and make sure that, A, it's level set within policy, and B, moving some of the static policy practices to be more on this line where, as you stated, formula-based so that everybody has this opportunity [00:38:00] for it. But Dr. Sadorf, this is the last question, and I'm gonna try my best to hold you to three words.

Michael Conner: I have successfully failed for four consecutive seasons- ... with every single guest on VFE, but I give it a- 

Melissa Sadorf: No pressure. 

Michael Conner: I, I give it a 10. I have, I... Listen, I have some true disruptors that come on VFE. They don't hold three words. What three words do you want our audience today to leave with regarding the continued advancement and advocacy for rural schools in today's education climate?

Melissa Sadorf: Yeah. Rural is ready Rural is ready. And I wanna be specific about it because ready is easy to say, and I mean something concrete by it. We're ready structurally. You know, a district that has 400 students can resi- re- redesign a graduation program or a profile in a semester. So we are very agile, and that agility, I think, is the single most valuable asset in a decade when nobody can forecast what's going on.

Melissa Sadorf: I think we're ready economically. The AI [00:39:00] and quantum economy has a physical footprint, and that footprint is rural. So precision agriculture, distributed energy, autonomous logistics. I mean, you talk about data centers. This economy is built and being built in our counties, and our students should be its architects, not its landscape.

Melissa Sadorf: And three, I- we're ready relationally. Trust is infrastructure, and when you know every family, adoption is a conversation instead of a change management initiative. So large systems can spend millions trying to manufacture what we already have. And we're ready because we've been proving it. Rural schools kept feeding kids when buses became delivery trucks during COVID.

Melissa Sadorf: DC, as you say, you know, turning parking lots into hotspots and, you know, running school out of a gym. Um, so when I say that rural's ready, what I'm saying is this: stop designing policy that assumes we need to be rescued, and start designing policy that assumes that we're competent. And, and that's the whole shift.

Melissa Sadorf: Not more sympathy, but more [00:40:00] assumption of capacity. So we're ready, and the question is whether or not the system is ready for us. 

Michael Conner: Uh, I, I love it, Dr. Sadorf. And here's the thing. This is a first on VFE, and this is why I love rural leaders, is that three words, you multiplied it to be six words. Rural is ready structurally, economically, and relationally.

Michael Conner: Thank you, Dr. Sadorf, for coming on Voices for Excellence. Now, anybody that's in my audience that wanna learn more about your work, learn more about the NREA, learn more about how to support your strategic plan, your five-year strategic plan, and also just about the conferences and the different professional learning exercises, how would they be able to get in touch with you or someone on your team?

Melissa Sadorf: Head to our website, nrea.net, and everything is there, including how you can get ahold of me or our team. 

Michael Conner: Awesome. Dr. Sadorf, it is such an honor. I know the next time I'll see you will be [00:41:00] in... Is it sunny? Yeah, it's still-- Yeah, Texas is sunny. Sunny San Antonio down there, and definitely on the River Walk. But from, from my heart to, from my heart, just thank you, Melissa, for coming on.

Michael Conner: This is such- Yeah. 

Melissa Sadorf: Thank you, Michael ... 

Michael Conner: such an honor to, to have you on here. 

Melissa Sadorf: It was-- The pleasure was all mine. Thank you for the opportunity to have this discussion with you. Appreciate it. 

Michael Conner: Absolutely. And on that note, onward and upward, everybody. Have a great evening.