Dr. Joe Sanfelippo is the Superintendent of the Fall Creek School District in Fall Creek, WI. The Fall Creek School District was named an Innovative District in 2016 and 2017 by the International Center for Leadership in Education.
Dr. Michael Conner
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening and welcome to another episode of Voices for Excellence. I am your host, Dr. Michael Conner, CEO and founder of the Agile Evolutionary Group. And as I just stated, the proud host of the VFE. And today’s guest, the first episode in May, I will say this, my guest today is, if you remember Wayne’s World, we’re not worthy. We’re not worthy. Yes, I got it. We’re not worthy. A we’re not worthy guest for VFE. And it is such a tremendous honor to have Dr. Joe Sanfelippo, who has been not just a brother but a superintendent, but just on the national circuit, hearing him all over across the country. Just recently I heard him at the TASSA event in Austin, Texas. But, Joe is known for his one minute video. I mean, he got everybody saying go crickets. And you have stuff that’s just anonymous, saying that at home. But in the education space, when you hear go crickets, you know it’s Dr. Joe Sanfelippo, someone that I just love and respect to the highest level of education from superintendent. And just to what he talks about, just motivational as he is. So without further ado, it is an honor to have Dr. Joe Sanfelippo, the proud superintendent of Fall Creek Public Schools in Fall Creek, Wisconsin. And I can tell you this, Tom, Tom Murray, I got him on so he’s going to get you back this episode. Dr. Joe Sanfelippo, everybody. Joe, how are you doing, my brother?
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. I’m excited to be here and thanks for the intro. It’s just been been a wonderful ride so far. And you try to help people who struggle, which is how I met Tom Murray. So every time that I can help people that really don’t work in schools and don’t really know what’s going on, I’m here for that. So I appreciate the opportunity to come on and talk and just share some of the stuff that we’re doing. And I appreciate the opportunity just to kind of be with you. So thank you. You’re doing a great job. I love being here with you. So what do you got for me, man?
Dr. Michael Conner
Listen, Joe, I got I just got to say this. And this was a Twitter battle between Tom Murray and Dr. Joe Sanfelippo. So I don’t know who it was, and this had me crying laughing.I don’t know who it was, but somebody posted a dollar next to the book. It said get your– Joe, highlight that for me because I was dying. And then was it your response were it was a kidney or something like that? Joe, please just elaborate before we get into the actual podcast.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
All right. So, Tom, I love Tom. He’s one of my best friends in the world, but I’ll make fun of him every chance I get. And he posted a picture of– there was my book, Leave From Where You Are, and it was on a table and it was like clearance or something like that. And I posted a picture where there was only one book that I had left but a full stack of his, which essentially meant nobody is buying that trash. So, I mean, honestly, we had to make sure… let’s call it what it is. This is what it is, garbage. So I got to make sure that everybody knew that my book was sold out and he had like 100 copies or something left and nobody really wanted… you know, people didn’t buy it. They didn’t buy it.They just took it off the table because the chairs were really wobbly. And so they were able to level out their chairs with the book. It actually was very useful. I saw one dude using it to put his coffee on. Everything was really good. It worked out really well for him. I mean, people are actually reading mine and they’re essentially just holding stuff up with his. It’s okay, it works, Michael. It works.
Dr. Michael Conner
Joe I tell you, I’m crying laughing right now because I can hear both of you going back and forth. I’ve been in the same space where you are and it is just, I mean, you’re leaving, crying laughing because I tell you, two of the most powerful individuals in education just going at it and just having a good time with it. Tom, I can’t wait till this is aired because I have to hear the response.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
He won’t listen to it. He won’t listen to it. Well, he’ll tell you that he’s going to listen to it and then he won’t. His office is at his parent’s house, Mike. Let’s be honest about what’s going on right now. He’s in the basement. He’s in between podcasts. He’s polishing the second grade participation trophy from soccer. This is what happens. So let’s just… he’s not listening to this thing.
Dr. Michael Conner
He’s not listening to it at all. Joe, I tell you and to my audience, this is what happens when we’re all in person together. This is what’s great about it. You just got a glimpse of my partner, Joe Sanfelippo, Tom Murray, whoever, Marlon Styles, whoever it might be, when we’re all together. Wow.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
And you have to. Because you know what? Honestly, like I said, I love him to death and we’ll make fun of each other. But he’s fantastic. He is. And we’re all in. You are as well. And the guys that we connect with, it’s just really you can… like we talk– The idea is take the work seriously, but don’t take yourself too seriously. And I think that’s a really big deal in terms of where we start and what we do, because it’s one voice, they’ve got one voice at the same time. I can be really loud, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s one voice. And if you have more people that you can bring along, it changes the conversation for everybody. And that’s all we’re trying to do is just give everybody a chance to really do some great things with kids and create some value in terms of what we do. So hopefully that’ll be if people can laugh a little bit, it gets them in the right mindset to hear different things. And that’s what we try to do every time we get a chance to get together.
Dr. Michael Conner
Yeah, no, Joe, thank you for that. And like I said, you want it. You want the best in the country and I’m glad to have you, obviously. So let’s get in the podcast, man, I tell. you we had Comedy Central, which is great. We could do that all day. But yeah, we could. Joe, you are a national figure in this ecosystem. And there’s no doubt everybody knows who you are. Your influence as an author, speaker, a facilitator for recognized programs, one program, District Administration, that group, they’re very dynamic. But as the superintendent of Fall Creek Public Schools, what song would describe Dr. Joe Sanfilippo as superintendent? I’m even going to bring it down to the next level – Elementary school teacher. Yes. When you were elementary school teacher and now site based leader for Fall Creek, Wisconsin.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
So, oh, my gosh. Part of me feels like I should have read through the questions a little bit better. So the… I guess the thing that that I keep coming back to is when I do these little walk to work videos and I talk about leadership and what it looks like, I always end the same way. There’s 92 of these videos or whatever (that might be more now, I don’t remember). But there’s more than 90 of these videos and all of them, all of them end with the same the same piece. And that’s we’re all in this thing together. And so I think anything like we’re all in this together, anything that has… any song that has together in it is probably where we’re going to be, because I think a lot of us are trying to do this work alone and you really can’t do this work alone. And so if you feel like you’re in it together, I think you come to work every day knowing that your purpose is bigger than just what’s going on right in front of you, that your impact is wide. You just don’t get a chance to see it all the time. So my big thing is how are we making sure that everybody feels part of it? And that’s the reason I end those videos… it’s the reason that I always end the same way. We’re all in this together. And until we figure that out, we’re still going to walk through schools in silos. And that makes it really difficult to find value in the work when you don’t know your own value in the work. And being all in it together means figuring out ways to see the great things not only that you’re doing in your space, but that others are too, and putting them in a situation where they can feel valued for that work. And I think a lot of times what ends up happening is as the school leader, you’re seen as the face of the organization or people are going to come to you with the biggest problems and everything like that. But the culture of that building and building everybody up cannot be dependent on one person. And if people in this building are waiting for me to walk in their room and tell them that they’re great at their job, they’re going to be waiting longer than they should, than they should have to. But if we’re in a situation where the second grade teachers are always building up second grade teachers in the second grade, teachers walk to the third grade rooms and that kind of stuff, now all of a sudden we get some momentum in places. It doesn’t need to be like this huge poster, this video or whatever. It’s just walking next door and saying, I trust you, I value you, I love what you do. And if we can all be in that situation, I think we find ourselves walking to school in a much better scenario. So I think we’re all in this together. Is that a song? That’s probably a song. Is that a high school musical song?
Dr. Michael Conner
It’s something. It’s something Joe.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Then go with that. Go Wildcats or whatever they are. I think that’s probably where we go.
Dr. Michael Conner
And Joe, thank you. Because when you say we are all in this together, I start thinking about the why. But now, I’m starting to shift my vernacular and my presentation registrar in the context of together in our why? Because you’re absolutely correct. We see a lot of our leaders doing this alone. A lot of the the siloed collaborate or silos that we have, that is in lieu of the true collaboration of how we can work together. And Joe, you have been exemplifying that where you make yourself available to leaders across the country. It doesn’t matter if they’re in a classroom level or even up to the superintendent level. You model that. We have to… we are all in this together. And I’m afraid that we have to really define that in education of what that really looks like. We can articulate organizational strategies. We can look at the structural and content features of culture. But I still think we need to define that we are all in this together. What does that look like, Joe, in the context of us being in our why?
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
That’s a really great question. And I think the thing that I get that kind of hits me with the why piece of it is like I can tell everybody in our building to make sure that they remember their why. They remember why they’re here and that kind of thing. But that doesn’t help them when it kids pulling on their pant leg and they just spilled a bunch of paint everywhere and they’re trying to figure out what’s next? I mean, what I get is a deep philosophical conversation about why we’re here at that point. Then we’re in survival mode. So I think when it comes to… I love the way that you described it, together in our why? Because it puts us in a situation where you can quantify what that looks like as opposed to having it as some philosophical umbrella where I think a lot of people get lost because, yeah, I know why I got into it, but if I don’t get a chance to see that on a daily basis, then I start to wonder why I do it. And that’s a big deal, right? Yeah, that doesn’t bring you back in terms of what that looks like. So what we talked about here, most importantly, is creating a culture where trust is at the core and we know what we’re doing. It actually started with creating a culture of storytellers, and that was a big deal because when you know that your story has value, you’re willing to talk about your story. If you don’t think your story has value, then you’re going to shut your door and go and just do your thing and not tell anybody about it because you’re afraid of what the response is going to be. Not that the response, from a colleague… if you go next door and you tell them, think about this, how many times do people go next door to a colleague and complain about something or talk about something logistical or a scheduling conflict versus how often do they go next door and say, I just taught this really great lesson? They don’t. And the reason that they don’t do it is they’re afraid of the response. Not that the response is going to be, well, that’s really not that big a deal. We all do that. That’s not the response. The response is, where did you find the time to do that? Or the response is, don’t tell anybody about that, because if you do that, then I’m going to have to do that and I don’t want to do that. So don’t do that. And then they don’t tell anybody because they’re afraid of what the response is. But when you know that your story has value, you’re willing to say something about it because you know that the person that you’re talking to, they know their story has value, too. And so all of a sudden we put ourselves in a situation where we have to kind of move and what we’ve done here, what has made the biggest impact here in terms of being together without hesitation and it’s not close. It cost us $0. And what has made the biggest impact without hesitation in this building is what do we do to recognize the greatness of colleagues, acknowledge the greatness of colleagues, and extend the greatness of colleagues. It’s really important because it’s really hard to take care of kids when we’re not taking care of the adults who are taking care of the kids. So if you recognize, acknowledge, and extend the work of your colleagues, it changes the conversation. So in my building, it looks like this. If I’m walking down a second grade hallway and I see a second grade teacher doing great things, I walk into that second grade teacher’s room to tell that second grade teacher that she’s doing great things. I’ve recognized it and I’ve acknowledged it. And a lot of people in schools do that. They do that, but they don’t do the third thing. Because when you extend the conversation to the eighth grade science teacher who has no business of being in the second grade hallway and you tell the eighth grade science teacher about the great things happening in second grade, what inevitably happens is the eighth grade science teacher walks to the second grade classroom to tell the second grade teacher that she’s doing great things. And the reason that he does it is because at some point somebody did it for him and it felt good. And all we want to do is live and work in a place that feels good. I’m not talking about great. I’m not even talking about great. I’m talking about good. It’s good because it gives you a shot at great. It’s hard to have a great day when you spill coffee on your way to work. It’s better to have… it’s easier to have a great day when you start it knowing that your story has value in the space that you live.
Dr. Michael Conner
That’s deep, right, Joe? And knowing your story has value in it. A lot of people, when we look at education and the polarization, the politics that are going on in education as well, where, it’s hard to start seeing that value. But the way you contextualize it, recognize, acknowledge and extend greatness. But just getting to that level of good. And Joe, this is why you were, in 2019, named the Education Drive National superintendent of the Year, because you create that type of culture within the teaching and learning dimensions in all your schools and all of central office. Then that has expanded to your one minute motivational videos. And now, yes, you and I, we are all in this together. But what I love particularly is my man ends, “Go Crickets.” Just like that. Just wow. I mean, literally, Joe, your voice just changes. And then you go, “Go Crickets.” Tom, Barry White voice. Anyway, I want you to expand, Joe. I love you. You know that. I want you to expand on the one minute videos on VFE here. You talk about leadership within those videos. But now I want you to expand here. Why is leadership so important in the AC stage of education? And through your lens, Joe, how do we reach ALL in this new education space, in one minute.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
In one minute, I got you. All right, here we go. So I think the one minute walks have been really fun because they’re just really little quick hitters and something I’m thinking about. And the best part about it for me is I don’t like schedule them. I do them when I feel like I have something to say and if I don’t have anything to say, I don’t do them. And I think that’s kind of there’s… I just hope that they’re authentic. I think the idea that we try to keep in mind along the way is that everybody leads in some context. And those walks are honestly, they are more reminders for me than they are for anybody else. They are either things that I have screwed up that I need to get better on, that are things that our building is doing really, really well, that I want to make sure everybody knows about or are things that I think about where we get some sort of national… there’s some national rhetoric about education or what happens. I remember something popped up on my feed yesterday. It was one that I did a couple of years ago during the pandemic, and Time magazine had put out this cover about how it was a lost year in education, and I couldn’t have disagreed with them more. I think the idea… the only way that that year was a lost year is if nothing changed after that year, which is not the case. It changed everywhere across the country and it gave us… we can get into that, that’s pretty deep. But at the same time, we wanted to be real clear about how we could get this done. So how do we reach everybody? We just meet them where they’re at. And a lot of times we don’t do that. I’m not trying to create clones. Oh God, please not make clones of me around here. One of me is enough. I want to make sure that we put people in a situation where they can be their best selves. And that doesn’t mean making more me. That means making them the best them and everything that I can do to help out and give them a voice that they may not have had before. I mean, the way that I think about it is this place was special before I came. It’s going to be special when I leave. And if more people know about Fall Creek because we do those videos, then I’m so happy about that. But just because they know about it doesn’t make it special. Like everybody knows about spam. Spam is not special. Okay, so let’s be honest about this. It’s the special… what’s here is special? And I just get a chance to talk about it. So we have to be real clear about the great things that are happening here.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And Joe, not only has the work of Fall Creek been put on the national scene, but essentially how you’ve taken leadership. And how you carried your leadership lens and your leadership signature into Fall Creek, it’s just kind of like this perfect synergy. 12 years. 12 years as a superintendent. Congratulations. And I don’t know if my audience knows, but Dr. Joe Sanfilippo will end his tenure at Fall Creek at the end of this academic year. And it has been such a successful and illustrious career as a superintendent. So, I know you’re across the nation now speaking with educators and leaders, but I want you to identify what is your message about staying positive in the AC stage of education and how can, and you alluded to it in pretty much every answer within every question, but how can my audience lean on their affirmations that they are making a difference for all?
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Well, I think the first thing that they need to do is figure out what brings them joy. And I think and do more of that. I mean, I know that sounds simplistic, but we talk to our staff a lot about starting your day and ending your day with joy. And it’s not just about the joy, it’s about starting and ending your day. Otherwise we cycle and then we go home to the people that we love the most, that care about us most, that give us the most latitude, and then they get the least of us because they love us the most and give us the most latitude. And that’s not the way that it should be. So we talk about starting your day, but we also talk about finding the joy in that. And so what I often tell people when I get them together is think about what you do to start your day and how many of the things that you do to start your day bring you joy. Are they just things that need to get done? And that ends up being a really big deal for people because they write down all the stuff they do to start their day and none of it brings them joy. It just is a bunch of check mark stuff that they do because they got into this routine of this is what it looks like. And then they’re not in the right mindset to see great things that are happening all around them. So I think when you can find purpose and joy in the work, then it brings you back the next day knowing and understanding that you’re going to be able to find that the next day too. And so we do an activity here, we call it “my three”, and we ask our staff members to write down what three things would have to happen throughout the course of the day to make the day successful for them. And I have them keep that right next to their work station so they can look at that throughout the course of the day and see that these are the things that make me happy. These are the things that drive what I do. And either I’ve done those and I should feel better about the day or I haven’t done any of them. And if I do them, I’m going to feel better about the day. But it also gives us administrativley an opportunity to know what they value too. So when I go into their room and I see that on their wall, I get a chance to leave some positive feedback on something that they enjoy too. So we’re trying to find purpose in everybody’s work. At the same time, if they’re not going to tell us what the purpose of their work is, how am I supposed to help them in that process? And I want to be as helpful as I can. But me saying to them overall, hey, you’re doing great stuff. You do it well. Like what? Great what? Tell me something specific. And I think that the more that we can get into specifically what they do and it’s not just about leaders in offices, it’s about leaders in classrooms. You can do the same thing with your kids. You can do the same thing with your colleagues. And I find you get a lot more run from the people that you teach next to every day than you do from the superintendent in the school district. I mean, I can hopefully set up the environment, but I can’t be the one to drive that. I mean, it’s got to come from within because then it has value, because it’s authentic and it’s real and it’s next door. And I think that’s been a big deal with us.
Dr. Michael Conner
Now, you’ve been, Joe, marvelous with that. And to my audience, Dr. Sanfelippo, he just contextualized culture at its best, vertical culture, horizontal culture, how it’s being impacted. When I talk about horizontal, I’m talking about practitioner, practitioner, practitioner or student to student. That’s where we need that type of, I like to say, cultural dimensions that have that impact where at every single tier you’re going to start seeing all that resonating and you built that, Joe. And again, that’s a model. And I hope that and I know that you will, but I hope that my audience or individuals out there that really want to focus on creating a culture, a climate that is conducive for all in the AC stage of education, I encourage you to reach out to Dr. Joe Sanfelippo. He’ll provide you with some great strategies, techniques and I mean the “my three”, if you think about that. And if we’re just talking about being strategic to impact culture, to leverage or to accelerate your strategy just by doing that, my theory and that will just impact all your whole culture, whether it be primary culture, secondary culture. And I’m even talking about the late and implicit culture that exists within our teaching learning organization. So thank you for that. But now I’m moving off to another topic, Joe. This is where I said… so full transparency, everybody. Before the podcast, Joe and I, we were on and I said, I want to be like you when I grow up. And this is why I said, I want to be like Dr. Joe Sanfelippo. I’m just happy to have my one book out. This is my one, Joe. This is freshman JV talking. This is the JV, right? On to play varsity. Coach, I want to get minutes in varsity. You’re not ready yet. You got to work on JV so… my one book. I’m elated, happy, it’s out there, it’s moving. People are referencing it. But Dr. Joe Sanfelippo has numerous authored, numerous books. And you know what Joe, and I’m sorry if I minimize it, but I know of three national bestsellers. That’s like Kobe going 1 to 3 or five. That’s like me talking junk to Joe and Joe going like this to me, 1, 2, 3 national bestsellers. Congratulations on that, bro. But there is great diversity in the content of each of those books. Multiple elements of the education model where you’re interrogating, providing research, providing strategies, and it’s all undergirded around leadership now. First, can you provide my audience with a quick snapshot? And I love this. I love your last, I love all your books, but this last one, Lead From Where You Are: Building Attention, Connection and Direction in our Schools. How we can be at that school? How can it be underscored as a guide for leaders and their teams? Because, Joe, I read that, no lie, and I’m a reader, I read that in two days. I mean, that’s how good it was, Joe. But just give my audience just some context of what that book is about.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
So honestly, I’m not a writer by trade, I’m really not. And I think the… what ended up happening was sometimes you get projects that unstick you. And I think this was the one that got me unstuck. I mean, I had been doing the Walk to Work videos for years and thinking about what the book was going to look like. And honestly, I loved doing the walk to work videos and I figured if I love those, then if I can get those into content in terms of how people can dive deeper into them in terms of how we work, the why, the what and the how of what happens in schools, maybe we can help a couple of people just think about things a little bit differently while also valuing what they’ve already done to that point. So leading from where you are is essentially knowing and understanding that you have an impact regardless of the position that you hold. And it’s not about the position, it’s about how you lead in that position. If it’s at the central office level or if it’s at the building level, if it’s in the classroom, if it’s on the playground, if it’s on a corp, whatever it is, everybody leads in some capacity. So how can we take things that create value for not only the people that you serve, but know that the work that you do has a tremendous impact and how can we build momentum along that? So that’s kind of where the the why came in terms of what we do. The what is really logistical, the what it looks like in schools and the how are actually examples on how we do it. And so it doesn’t feel like it’s forum. What I would tell people that read the book is that we try to put as much stuff as we could in there. But remember, it’s over the course of 12 years that I’ve been in this building. So trying to do all of it at one time is I would say, I’d push back on that when I tell people is this what it’s like, the shiny new toy? You get the shiny new toy and everybody looks at the shiny new toy, and then you focus on the shiny new toy and all the stuff that you’ve been doing that’s been working gets pushed off to the side for the shiny new toy. And then six months later, you’re like, man, we used to do this one thing. We should bring that back. And it takes longer to bring back when it never should have left to begin with. So we talk a lot about… in each one of those areas, in the why, the what, and the how, think about what’s actually happening in your space that’s working. What are two things that are working right now and what’s the plan to continue those to work? And then what’s one new thing that you want to try in that area of intention, connection, direction, which is essentially the three big areas of the book. How are we being intentional about who we lead and how we lead? What is the connection that we make to who we lead and how we lead and what direction are we providing for who we lead and how we lead? And I think that’s been really helpful to people just to kind of put it into a graphic that helps them along the way. But please understand, the work that you’re already doing right now is substantial and it’s impactful. And don’t throw stuff away just because a shiny new toy shows up on your desk. Think about what’s actually working in intention, connection and direction and then add to those pieces. So what I work with groups about coaching or if I’m speaking or doing a workshop, they walk out with six things that they’re already doing that are really great in intention, connection and direction and three things that they want to try over the course of multiple years. So hopefully that helps them build momentum so it’s not– And then it’s good for staff too, because you’re not always changing. Same thing with kids. If you’re always changing, they don’t get a chance to be content in that area.
Dr. Michael Conner
Yeah. And Joe, when you– first, to my audience, I always like to reference best practices with learning. And you heard me say this before andogogy, pedagogy, heterogogy, they’re all the same. Pedagogy, andogogy, student learning, adult learning. We have to address specific modalities and alignments and taxonomies. It doesn’t matter. It’s just you’re either doing that for seven year olds or you’re doing that for a 57 year old. But when I talk about andogogy specifically, please, my audience. Joe just gave a really in-depth answer with regards to his book. So if you have his book to be able to complement that with his answer that he just provided you with in regards to intention, connection and direction and those specific scaffolds manner embedded within his book, please use this as another another asynchronous tool to be able to support the content that’s in front of you. Because, pretty much, Joe really outlined his book, but also more importantly, how you can have that alignment with intention, connection and direction. Very specific, very specific in what he says. What are two things that work and what is one thing that requires attention, as in three things everybody. And Joe, the way you put it, it’s just so simple, I think, within the message that we don’t need a variety of different, new things. We might have it right in front of us if we comprehensively understand how it impacts kids. So, Joe, if you can elaborate on that, because that is a great answer. Again, that whole intention, connection and direction going down to that requiring attention, that phrase sticks out. It resonates with me because in my book, Intentional, Bold and Unapologetic, the first thing I say is there’s intentionality with the systems of model transformation in the AC stage of education. Can you just elaborate on “requires attention”? I know there might not be alignment, but again.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Yeah, absolutely. And I think what ends up happening, if we’re not intentional about the work, we just keep going and going and going and doing and doing and doing. And when you never take a step back to realize the impact of go, go, go, do, do, do, you just get to the next thing. And then we miss a ton of the stuff that happens all around us because we’re always trying to get them there. I mean, there’s a lot of list people. I don’t know if you’re a list person, but I’m a list person, and I write stuff down on list and I check it off as I go along. But there’s not a ton of things that are on that list that I actually like to do. There are just things that need to get done now. I feel good when I get my list done, but then I walk out and by the time I walk in, there’s ten more things on my list. So if I’m bound by the list, I don’t get a chance to see the things that I’m impacting with the list because I’m always trying to get to the next thing on the list. And if we’re intentional about how we lean into the conversations and the connections that we have that are a byproduct of that list, now all of a sudden we’re more intentional about what we do on a daily basis as opposed to just getting to the next thing on the list. The list has to get done but if you don’t figure out why the list is what the list is, then you just keep doing the list and not being intentional about it. And the human connection to the things that are on that list bring you back to why you have to do it to begin with. So knowing the impact… and I think the other thing is that we’re leading… I believe we’re leading a group of people in buildings that don’t get the immediate gratification for their work. I mean, you think about this, think about how many times a kid comes back 15 years after you had them in school. And they come back and they come and they see you at a grocery store or a restaurant or at a game or something. And say I really liked having you as a teacher. You were a really good teacher. And what you want to say is, man, you could have said something like you could have said you were here every day, like you weren’t absent ever. You could have said something but they don’t. And so if you don’t get that immediate gratification, you start to wonder. And if you walk without intention, it makes it easier to not realize the impact. So I think we got to be really intentional about how we do it. And it’s not even… honestly, I don’t walk with intention for the people that I serve as much as I do for me, because otherwise I lose my own way and I start to wonder why I’m doing what I’m doing. You walk with intention, so you see the joy. I share a lot of videos and stuff that I see that I get sent to me from people in my building of great things that are happening in the building. I wouldn’t have seen any of those things because I wasn’t there. But if I can connect it to people that they’re willing to share, now, all of a sudden I can be intentional about the next connection and the momentum based off that event that I may not even have been there for.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely, Joe, walk with intention. I’ll tell you this, your brilliance is truly appreciated. On the left, the wow please audience. That’s direct instruction point six and I had a back size asynchronous in this context I don’t even want to follow that up because that really is amazing. Next question, brother. I consider you a czar with regards to how you elevate your message on social media. And now we’re starting to see a lot of people emulate that strategy of being able to elevate their message, elevate their platform on social media, specifically around the AC stage of education to develop this coalition. So if I’m an inspiring leader or even a veteran leader, where I know that times change, where we have to be able to use,I like to say, multi-sided platform forms, i.e. social media, to be able to leverage a message around equity and change. Which strategies, that are based, would you give these individual stakeholder groups or even leaders to elevate their voice for change on social media? And if I’m just listening to you and say, Wow, the one minute videos, we got the taglines and everything we know is for change. Everybody knows mine is hashtag change the world, my leadership every morning. But how can I use social media as a leader to brand, grow and accelerate this vision around change in the AC stage of education?
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
That’s a great question because I think that’s where we get the most of our leverage in school to be really honest, I think that when people started hearing about some of the stuff that we were doing, all of a sudden our teachers became the go to for professional development the way that we do it or telling your story in the way that we do it or leverage. I think, I do want to say that I think the whole concept of telling your school story has really gotten watered down. And I wrote a book ten years ago, and the name of the book is called The Power of Branding: Telling Your School Story. And it’s just gotten watered down, and it was probably watered down at that point too, because it was so new then. And the reason I say watered down is me telling the story to a group too. Just like if I go out on the football field and start talking about how great second grade teachers are and nobody’s there, I could tell my story, but there’s no leverage because there’s no audience, right? It’s really about leveraging the voices of the people in your space. And that’s how we tell the story, the way that we want to tell the story, because we’re very intentional about when we tell the story and how we tell the story and with what graphics we tell the story and all of the things that go along with it to elicit emotion, to elicit a connection, because those are the stories that get told. And so we talk a lot about break in scripts and what that really looks like in terms of how we create a moment that people want to talk about. So that’s from the school side. We want to be very clear and kind and consistent, but at the same time, we also want to connect to the emotion of the listener, because when you connect to the emotion of the listener, there’s a better chance for the story to be told beyond the time that the event takes place. We talk about how the story wins every single time. The story always wins. So how do we make sure that the story is part of the conversation and how can we leverage that? That’s the school side. When we talk about the leadership side of it, I think the thing that people people get really disheartened early on by because they don’t get the immediate feedback on what they put out there and they think, oh man, that was a great thought. How come it didn’t get seen by a bunch of people? Well, I think you got to just kind of put your head down and grind and at some point people will see it. When I started doing those walk to work videos, nobody was watching them. And it was actually probably good because they were awful. So, I mean, you kind of get yourself into a groove after a while and you know that when more people see it, you kind of put a little bit more into it. But when I started doing them, I was just doing them. And I think that they’ve just turned into a little bit more just because people started to kind of grab on to them. And I wanted to, I guess… when you start, I think the advice that I would give to people is just start and be consistent and don’t worry about the big change that it’s going to make. But if it’s authentic and it’s real to you, you’ve already changed yourself. And if you’ve already changed yourself, the first part is done. Worry about the change that you’re making to what you can control before you start. Make it before you start worrying about the change that you’re making, the things that you can’t.
Dr. Michael Conner
Joe I mean, just start and be consistent. I know some people I talked to, especially with regards to my leadership tips and the focus around change and equity, people are like, oh, you have a big following. I was like, but the intent is not to have a big following, it’s to try to leverage a message so that it can expand so that we have this change movement coalition going on and adjust our focus. Listen, the immediate feedback don’t worry, it’s the new way of demonstrating your voice. And it doesn’t matter if you know how many people are liking it or you know how many views you want it to impact. And Joe, you made it so simplistic for people. And how we can change that mindset from immediate feedback to just being consistent. If we even did that in the real world context, I think we will be in a much better place. But Joe, I hate to say this man. Last question. I don’t want this to end and I need to say this to Tom Murray. Tom, don’t get mad, brother. Don’t get mad.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Listen, he’s not listening. I told you, Mike. He’s not listening. He’s getting… He’s shining trophies and his Mom didn’t cut off the corners of his peanut butter jelly sandwich, so he’s mad. I understand how this thing works. We’re, good, you go ahead and ask the question. He’s not listening.
Dr. Michael Conner
Tom, ah, listen man. I love you. I got…Oh, I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Last question, brother. What three words or next steps do you want today’s audience to leave this podcast with regarding leadership for equity and excellence? And I heard you in the atmosphere and that message at TASA in Austin was amazing. And this is why I kind of led into this because the way you created that triangulation, which is absolutely amazing, between leadership, equity and excellence, that’s what I got when I left after that keynote. But how can my audience apply these three words that you’re going to provide to us regarding leadership for equity and excellence within their own leadership signature?
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Yeah, well, I hate to be repetitive, man, but honestly, I don’t… I stay in my lane. I stay in my lane. I know what I do. Well, I know what I don’t do well. And when it comes down to, it every group that I’ve worked with from my school here to the hundreds of schools that we’ve worked with across the country, the one thing that has made the biggest impact with all of them are the three words recognize, acknowledge and extend. And each one of those simplistic… each one of them you dive deep into. And if you do them all with intentionality, they change the conversation for the people that you serve. If you recognize the greatness of the people that you serve, acknowledge the greatness of the people you serve to them to make sure that they know it and then extend it to somebody who didn’t see it, it changes the culture, regardless of where your culture is, because it provides an opportunity where we’re not walking through hallways in silos. If we can just get to the place where you recognize the great things that your colleagues are doing, they’re going to feel more value. You feel better when you tell them, they feel better when they hear it, and when you can extend it to somebody who wasn’t there. Now we bring in a new audience that doesn’t get to see us on a regular basis. There are no stands in classrooms. We’re not talking about selling tickets to get into classrooms. The general public is not seeing the incredible things that happen in these classrooms on a regular basis. So it starts with us. How do you put yourself in the right mindset to recognize that around you, acknowledge it to the people that are doing it, and then find somebody who didn’t see it and make sure that they know it, recognize it, acknowledge it and extend it.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely Joe, thank you for that. And those three words, recognize, acknowledge and extend. I mean, obviously, there’s a myriad of research theory, empirical studies on culture, but I could tell you to my audience right now, we don’t need all of that. You can just dilate on Joe Sanfelippo and just use recognize, acknowledge, and extend. That will change the culture, change it in an accelerated manner, where it will start manifesting in areas that you wouldn’t even know in the learning organization. Wow Joe, I mean, to be honest with you, Dr. Sanfelippo, it has just been an absolute honor to have you on today’s episode. I got to laugh, I got to cry, and I got to learn, that’s a good day. It’s a good day. That’s a good day. I didn’t take it… but I got you. I laughed today, I cried today, and I certainly learned. But Joe, if my audience is wanting to get in touch with you, email you, have a question, start following you, how would they be able to do that?
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
I think the best chance is go to JSanfelippo.com, J, S-A-N-F-E-L-I-P-P-O.com, and all my stuff is there and honestly my phone number’s there too. If you need something, you call me, text me and you’re going to get an answer. I don’t say we’re all in this thing together just because it’s convenient to say, if you need something, call me, text me, email me, whatever. We’ll try to do the best we can to help you out, because a lot of us are trying to do this work alone, man, and we can’t do it. So let’s figure out a way to do it together. It has been an absolute honor, Michael, to be part of your show and thank you for all you do. And if there’s ever anything that I can do to help out, please don’t hesitate to ask.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And you know, I’m going to call you and I’ll get my signed copy. I got to defend my brother once I get the signed copy mailed to my house. No problem Joe, you got to follow up on that as well. But together and our why, I will definitely give you a call.
Dr. Joe Sanfelippo
Again, extra copies, man. A lot of copies. What else is he going to do? I probably want to…. Well, he has a box of them holding up a wall, but yeah, absolutely. I got you. I got you. I’ll send one to you. I got you for sure, man. I got you for sure. I’ll send you 2 brother.
Dr. Michael Conner
I love you to death. Thank you. It has been an absolute honor. I’m going to give you a call later on. We just got to catch up, brother. On that note, onward and upward, everybody. Have a great evening.
