Dr. Raymond Sanchez is the superintendent of the Tarrytown School District. Dr. Sanchez has led the district of more than 5,000 students during a period of tremendous growth in student population. He has been widely applauded for his efforts to develop partnerships with community organizations, achieve educational equity, and meet the needs of all Ossining children and their families.
Dr. Michael Conner
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening. And welcome to another episode of Voices for Excellence. I am your host, Dr. Michael Conner, CEO and founder of the Agile Evolutionary Group. And today’s guest has been a personal friend for years in the Westchester County, has made a huge, huge, huge impact as a superintendent, one of our national voices in education, whether it be through his work with AASA, whether it be through his work with the New York State Affiliate of ALAS, or even just being an education friend, providing insight and recommendations to how do we navigate the the turbulent times as executive leaders and even as cabinet leaders. So it is my honor to have my hermano, mi hermano, mi familia, es, I do speak spanish everybody, Dr. Ray Sanchez, who is the proud Superintendent of Ossining Union Free School District in Ossining, New York. Yes, my brother from Westchester County. How are you today, doc?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
I’m doing great, actually. I should say I’m not worthy, so I appreciate this opportunity highlighted in my calendar. Really, really excited to be here with you. Obviously.
Dr. Michael Conner
Oh, man. And I tell you, Dr. Ray Sanchez, he is, he’s a humorous brother. I’ll tell you, me and him have had some great conversations over the years was a core partner during my years as a chief academic officer and superintendent. And more importantly, we’re continuing this work of how we can really look at providing an equitable environment, not just to students that Ray is servicing in Ossining, but more importantly, the broader context of ALL. So glad to have you all here, Dr. Sanchez. Now, we’re just going to have some fun man, I’m ready. Now, we’re going to start the podcast with the first question. And I can’t wait to hear this. So I want to know Dr. Sanchez’s equity song. And what I mean by that is when education leaders learn about you, Dr. Sanchez, or engage with you and as you’ve been or just being superintendent of Ossining Union Free School District, what equity song comes to mind when they learn, hear and engage Dr. Ray Sanchez in action?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
That’s a great question. And I’m going to go movie and song, but I’m a rock guy. That’s what we’re doing. I enjoy the movie and I enjoy the whole series up to, you know. But the newest version of Creed. Eye of the Tiger is my song by Survivor. Our work is has to be laser focused, laser focused on our kids. I still remember that scene where Creed goes up to to Rocky and tells him you need to have that look as he goes back into the ring with Clubber Lang and that’s what it’s like to be an educator really. Kind of not necessarily the fight, but really focusing on our kids and making sure that we do whatever it takes with a laser focus on what’s best for each and individual child. That’s my song. That’s you know, that’s what my my focus is when I go into the ring and on behalf of kids. It’s whatever it takes, taking down the barriers to make sure that all children have access and that all children have excellence as it relates to their pathway of education here in the Ossining School District and hopefully helping others along the way to do the same.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. You’re you’re more than helping and assisting Dr. Sanchez. And I’m just writing down and capturing all of the the micro themes that make this mackerel scene, really have this focus on kids, laser like focus on students. And your song Eye of the Tiger. When you think about the the depth, the breadth, the scope of the specific gaps that we are trying to address and accelerate growth in a variety of different ways in the education space, we have to have the eye of the tiger to be laser like focus on our kids. I always say this, it turns a lot of people’s, I should say head or their hair’s go up on their neck when you say this, but when you’re doing this work, you have to love students a little bit more than the adults. And obviously, when we’re in a service industry that provides it, we have to provide a service delivery model. It is the imperative that we have this laser like focus or this Eye of the Tiger. But, Creed man, I thought you talked about the younger Creed, I was getting ready to, but you went to Apollo Creed with Clubber Lang. Oh Dr. Sanchez…
Dr. Ray Sanchez
There’s only one creed, even though I know… but
Dr. Michael Conner
Thank you. There is only one Apollo, there is only one Apollo with that and that and Clubber Lang. Wow, Mr. T. Anyway, that’s a side conversation. But into the next…
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Just tell how often I’ve seen the movie. So it’s just your sense. I know the characters, their background and everything, so. But you know what? It relates to our kids. Really understanding their story and understanding who they are. They’re characters by name, but they have… each has a story we got to tell and understand.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. Rocky one, two and three with Apollo, yes, I love it. But you know, the storyline behind it but anyway, let me just get to the second question because we could talk about all the Rockys. I am a fan as well, but you’re a well-respected Superintendent in New York, Westchester County, and the United States, and you’re an active leader in the New York State Association of Latino Administrators, as well as facilitating national sessions with AASA. But you’re doing all of this and you’re having a great impact in your district, Ossining, as well as nationally. So can you just elaborate on some of the activities you’re doing in your district as superintendent of Ossining and then also some of the broader activities at the state level with the New York State Association of Latino Administrators and Superintendents and also let’s include your national work with AASA. Yeah, so I mean, I’ve been in the Ossining School District nine years. I’ve been actually been an educator in the Ossining schools for 20 plus years. I’ve been really honored to have been here, both as a teacher and now as a superintendent. The work is ongoing. So we are, I’ll just highlight a few of the, I think, transformational efforts that we’re putting forth within our district. Just to give you a sense, we have about 60% of our students are living on free and reduced lunch. We’re predominantly Latino as a school district, which is well referred to as an anomaly within Westchester County. And so one of the things that we’re constantly thinking about are not only just providing a great education for our students, but in order to do so, we also now need to meet and address fundamental needs of our families. So we’re predominantly or really focused on our community school efforts. And that is really about making our schools the hub of resources and really the center of our community efforts from school based health centers to dental services and food. We have a place called Oh Prime, which for me it’s… if you think about Amazon Prime, it’s a play on words, but in essence, you need something, we’re going to get it for you so that we can address those fundamental needs of all our families and so that our students are ready to learn when they enter our schools. Aside from that, we have, you know, we’re continuing to provide what I refer to as excellent programs from supporting dual language programs and bilingual efforts. One of the strongest assets we know our students enter with are that second language. So how do we enhance that and have them become bilingual, biliterate and bicultural, which are really important values of our school district? We have a commitment to early childhood. We serve about 288 students. When we think about the achievement gap, know that we go back to Ron Ferguson’s work and he talks about the achievement gap, the language gap starting at two years old. So we’re working to really make efforts and inroads to reach all our children and their families at an early age. And early childhood is critically important to us. And then we move through our system. And I’m really proud of all the educators we have doing work from college level courses to an award winning science program. Many years ago, we had we were named number one for math and science by Intel for our efforts in science education. So we really try to provide a robust program for all our students. We want them to do well academically. But the arts, the athletics, the extracurricular activities are extremely valuable, and that’s the effort. We’re continuously growing, building partnerships within the context of our schools. And the partnerships have really leveraged a lot of our efforts. But honestly…and then as it relates to New York ALAS, I’ve been very, very fortunate to work alongside some esteemed colleagues and really helping to support Latino leaders in our area and specifically New York. I have been fortunate enough to support the Lower Hudson region, which brings together… quite honestly, we want them to network. There’s this phrase that we use often, and I think you know, from a colleague that iron sharpens iron. And so the goal is to bring in all these great educators to support them, learn from different ideas that they may have so that we can all grow stronger in our efforts in support of children, so that’s some of the efforts were putting forth. We provide some networking meetings. We’ve been doing some learning sessions around equity. But more importantly than anything else, we’re hoping to foster greater relationships, particularly around our Latino leaders and leaders. In a broader sense, the title is not necessarily the most important aspect. We’re all leading work in various ways and we all have a sphere of influence. So that is the kind of spaces that we’re trying to provide and vulnerable spaces as well to talk about our our challenges as a whole. And then at the… as we talk about AASA continuing to support the national work, the organization’s outstanding, powerful, you know that as well. And in any way both small and large, if I can be supportive in representing our New York voice, but also supporting the national agenda around public education, and I need to be there to help support everybody. And currently our presidents from New York and our incoming president is from New York as well. So helping them in that transition and again, in support of our national agenda.
Dr. Michael Conner
And Dr. Sanchez, thank you for your work because when I scaffold your work into tiers, district, state and national work, there’s that vertical throughout that states that your voice is at a table and I know the vitality, the rigor that you’re bringing to the table at the national level, at the state level, and then more importantly, the work being implemented into outputs, our students and for kids, I love how… you know my my personal bias about early childhood education. When you’re underscoring Ralph Ferguson, work around the language gap. You know, coupling that with our Hart and Riesly study with regards to the word gap that is highlighting that, you know, there should be a critical emphasis while closing the preparation gap. You know, you and I have many a conversations about this where the achievement gap is a symptom, where the true root cause is what you just highlighted the language in the word gap that we must intentionally close, then we can be able to address some of the the major quandaries that we’re facing with regards to early literacy attainment, as well as even deeper level of comprehension skills, because, again, you know, I’ve been saying this for about five or six years. You grab obscure images on a mountaintop. We close the language and the word gap simultaneously from birth to three, Dr. Ferguson’s words start at two. And then also really that rich dialog and the introduction of words and reading so that we can be able to close all achievement gaps by grade one because Wide Gap is well, almost. But obviously we still have to provide interventions to provide a less, less academy of students. But you’re absolutely correct with that. A My you work for the New York. I’ll ask what you’re doing in the Lower Hudson reason can’t wait to see soon at your your your reading again which is I really want to that is is a cameo I never hear and then again your work at our last I mean I’m sorry A it’s just astounding. So keep asking those questions. Dr. Sanchez, because you certainly present them. And then also, I love that context or that phrase of excellent programing and community school efforts. And I think that it goes to this question right now, nice little segway into it where the current state of education, there’s this high volatility, right. Volatile in the multiple dimensions of the ecosystem and within our model. But I really love your creative approach. You kind of elaborated on it with regards to community school efforts. Excellent, excellent programing. But you’re taking a creative approach to include the voices of the stakeholders in your constituents, to continuously be iterative in the AC said AC stage of education for all. Very arduous, right? You have to be really strategic, I like to say is a science and are simultaneously that you’re integrating or interfacing with both. But how do you take, you know, some of the most controversial topics in education to leverage equity in excellence in your district that it just seems so seamless?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Yeah. So I mean, just give you the let me just say a little bit about that word seamless. It’s better that way. But it doesn’t come without its own challenges. And but clearly, like anything else, even with an implementation, after anything else, you want to level it off and make sure that ultimately it doesn’t impact the kids that you’re working with and more importantly, that it positively impacts the kids you’re working with. I’ll just share this. A couple of things is that within the context of my school district, that one of the things that I feel very privileged to work in a setting like Ossining is because the equity work had started even prior to my arrival. And so there’s an element as a leader that we have to recognize and honor the history of a community or a school district upon entering. And there was a significant amount of work to set the right culture for doing the work that I have the honor to do currently. So we’ve had a district that moved to a Princeton plan, which was an effort years ago in the early seventies, late sixties to desegregate our schools. This community was at the forefront of that. They spent two years studying the achievement gap. They had Pedro Noguera come in with Edie like a who’s who, Eddie Fergus, Yolanda Sealy Ruiz to study our high school and to provide us recommendations. So I share that because I honor that in terms of some of the work that’s been provided and kind of gives me sort of a baseline, a very strong baseline and a foundation to move the efforts going forward. This community is not new to the work. We’re just trying to elevate the work as we go forward. But the other part of it that you referenced is like, how do we go about doing this? As you know, data tells you a story and whether it’s quantitative, which is one story, but really trying to elevate the voices of our children have been really critical in our efforts. Our students need those spaces and we work hard to provide them those spaces to talk about their experiences, where we need to move our efforts in help supporting them. And I would say that’s been our greatest leverage, is to have our voices, our children speak to us about their educators, similar experiences and where we continually move. So just to give you a couple of examples, we have our students. There is a club that we’ve created to have a voice and garner the voices of our student body in terms of potential courses that we might offer. And some of the courses that we’ve had from fashion to some courses that center around race have been developed through the voices of our students. And and we’re going to continue doing that. And that’s actually going down all the way down to our elementary grades through the high school, because oftentimes we think about our secondary students. And so the last part I would say… so it’s data, the voices of our students. And lastly, making sure that throughout this that we are consistent in our message and work with our staff and our community. This is what we are. We are a district that focuses on equity. We’re seeking excellence for all our students. And when our data tells us a story, whether again, the voice of our students or other, we need to put our efforts forward. And the conversation is equity making sure that our programs… we talk about this often, we don’t need to have students, that our programs we need to work to, to center and create programs that meet the needs of students. So that’s a constant transformation and evolution that needs to exist. And I think you you illustrated it exceptionally well in your book like this Is that next stage. Our kids are coming back from a pandemic. We have opportunity in that as well to shift the paradigm as it relates education. And so, you know, the phrase is never use a bat, never let a good crisis go to waste. This is you know, that was the ultimate crisis. But we have an opportunity now and we know a lot about our kids and we need to continue to evolve as school systems. And we’re making efforts. We’re not perfect in that. But, you know, I’ve got a strong team around us, a great community, strong school board. And those are all the right ingredients for success.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And you’re doing it with a high level of success Dr. Sanchez. And you know you are the second superintendent. I am a proud, now I can say it, I’m a proud New Yorker. Not Westchester County in New York City. I’m up there little bit. A proud New Yorker. And to hear the second superintendent from New York, Dr. Luvelle Brown, both of you stated honoring the past. Honoring the history before and for you to put it in that contextual phrase where you talk about the history and how you’re elevating this 2.0 of your elevating your community voices with students rights, student voice, student agency so critical we hear adults talk on and on and on in this kind of like this cyclical manner where there really isn’t any reciprocity for students because it’s all adult focused or adult centric. Right now, you’re disrupting a model where our students, the voices of our elementary and middle and high school students are included in the design. And I love how you said the design is iterative. And always the conversation is around equity, this whole thing. And I want you to elaborate on this for a little bit. A crisis is a terrible thing The way Barack Obama, I love you. And when he said that, a lot of people who jumped up. But you’re right. But now when we’re in this stage of education. Right. And when I think about it holistically, is this polarity or trying to find this punctuated equilibrium between opportunity and challenge? I want you to elaborate on that, because you’ve you’ve done a lot of things looking at challenge, turning challenges into opportunities and looking at opportunities to expand for all. A lot of superintendents might have a hard time balancing that opportunity. Challenge equilibrium. You elaborate. How did you do that in a practitioner standpoint?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Yeah, that’s a great question because it’s like a reference before. This is all a work in progress, not without its bumps. You, you know, it’s it’s bringing the individuals to the table, the important individuals, meaning our staff, elevating their voice, sharing what that means in terms of what their experience and the experiences of our kids are and honoring what they’re what they’re doing in the classroom, because changes need to make and hopefully providing the right supports to make that work on their behalf. And then measuring it, of course, you know, making sure that that’s actually leading to results, whatever the words that were intended. But when we talk about a crisis like there is, there’s there’s an element, you know. Right. There’s a there’s a potential to accelerate some of the change process. And that’s, I think those are those are things that we we need to think about as we move forward or in that specific time where where we might be experiencing. That’s a crisis where those elements to accelerate some of that change process. The siege is hard, it takes time and you want to bring people along as it relates to that. But there are those times, and I think we’re in one of those moments where we can start to leverage the need to elevate and perhaps evolve, make our school systems change in such a way that better meets the needs of our children. Not disrespecting what’s happening in the past, but honoring that. And now we know our students are what what I refer to. They’ve gone through a lot. So have adults. And there are some elements that, you know, we’ve consciously tried to understand that we’ve had on the table. And conversely, since and now the why is just elevated even further. And so we need to, you know, start providing those resources and a road resources and a roadmap to make these things happen. And so those are just some of the things that we work on to make. You know, again, it’s the staff voice, but then also in many cases, they’re not new things are just things that we just need to now accelerate in such a way that’s going to benefit our kids in a positive light.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. Well framed, Dr. Sanchez, well framed to my audience, please. You know, using this as an asynchronous mechanism for professional learning to target specific strategies that could be implemented and aligned into your organizational strategy or culture, please rewind that. That’s the statement or the sentiments that Dr. Sanchez provided to you, because there are multiple, whether it be evidence based practices or empirical threads that can be applied universally in a multitude of different ways. So thank you for that answer. That two part yes or I should say. And moving into now, this is more of a reflection question, right? Because I want you know, we have a lot of aspiring superintendents, we have a lot of executive leaders who tune it to VFE. And some of the people you mentor. Right. Could be on this show listening right now because they know you provide great leadership strategies right within the build you are. You know, I like to say you just you just hand them out, right? You handle strategies, you hand out advice. You know, you just always Dr. Sanchez is always providing somebody something. So I’m going to ask you a question that will have you wrote way as a mentor. Right. And this is pretty much just an open forum to see how Dr. Sanchez reflect growth in the AC stage of education. So in this new stage or even, I like to say, face within the paradigm, what would you do differently to help aspiring superintendents or new leaders join this coalition of urgency for change in the AC stage of education?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
There are elements that are changed, and there’s some things that I would write need to say this out loud that I think in this AC stage you referenced that it’s in the in the in the C stage and the AC stage where where the importance of coalitions are really, really important. Yes. The importance of partnerships. You should no matter what. I would not change the aspect that we should not be doing this alone. Absolutely. And that there is power in reaching out and doing this as part of a collective group of superintendents, partnerships and school districts and learning from each other. I used a phrase that that iron sharpens iron, right? And a used it often colleague of mine reference. And it just stuck with me because to to do the work and the important work that we’re involved in and it’s getting harder, let’s just say it out loud, it’s getting more and more challenging. The uniqueness of our roles and what we’re doing as educators from a health and safety perspective, from a general safety perspective to the social emotional needs, it’s complex work to do it right. I would say it, it is complex work. So this the element of making sure that you reach out and that you do this in partnership with others, whether it’s in your district or you need to really be considering that at all times. I am better because of individuals like you, Michael, Because of colleagues that I’ve been able to reach out to to do the hard work on behalf of kids. Sometimes it’s challenging, but being able to reach out to individuals that you admire and that are always willing to give you the feedback is really, really critical. And so that’s never changed. And I need to just say that out loud to, you know, those that are listening is it’s like a, you know, a message from a good book. Just keep going back to it. That chapter is going to stay true and seminal piece. What I would say is different and what I would share with everyone too, is, is that to serve, to do the work, you also need to take care of yourself. And I have a message that now within, you know, those that I mentor and have opportunities to is now we need to provide that space for us to really take care of ourselves. Will Because it’s I mean, we’re just coming back from a break, you know, here in New York. And I see the difference in the educators that are here. It’s noticeable, it’s palpable. But honestly, there they’re they’re ready, more ready. And so we need to take those moments. And I think I would probably elevate some of that as it relates to our efforts. And lastly, I think we alluded to before, just know your history. That’s your history. Know what you’re walking into. Change is a process. We’ve got to work with urgency, but we also have to have a level of patience and in the things that we’re doing and never lose your focus, which again, is always about the kids.
Dr. Michael Conner
Yeah, that’s Dr. Sanchez. You just characterized good leadership. That’s just good leadership right there, which you just highlighted, you know, to be able to really manage all of those variables, variety of different variables. I’m looking at this now, but you always reference back to the critical, essential, right. The fundamentals of, you know, really the importance of coalitions and partnerships, but the power of the collection. Wow. Out of the collection, I think we work in such a isolated manner that sometimes we forget to even reach out to to people and that’s why, Ray, you know, building my shoulders, right? And you’re building your own shoulders as somebody else or many more individual goals in this world will be able to to lead on its own. And also, thank you for that.
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Yeah. If I can just add, Michael, I you know, I think there’s great examples and, you know, set it twice, complimented you twice. This is going to be my third. Like these podcasts. I’ve listened to all your podcasts. They’re extremely helpful to me right when I think I’m one superintendent and as the honor to serve the Ossining school district. But the national voices you’re bringing, you know, one from New York now to okay, so but I get the opportunity to hear from others that we’re all doing the work right? We have the honor of supporting this geographic location with our schools centered around it, but we’re all in it for kids. And so it’s these spaces, plus the ones that we have with our colleagues that cannot be lost. And we should not be thinking about this as work we’re doing alone. We’re all in this on behalf of kids. And this isn’t a competitive game. This is about making sure that we all succeed in our efforts on behalf of kids. Like I want every district that is surrounding me to do. Well, yeah, And clearly, I want the kids in Ossining to do well as well. Yeah. Yeah. And Dr. Sanchez, thank you man because literally commercial company. This is the commercial now. Because I mean, because honestly, you know, the words coming from you are a really a national spokesperson about change and about doing the real work and having you said about me, my brother, like I said, I’ve been wanting to shut down after after every participant say something, I would just want to shut it down.
Dr. Michael Conner
I was like, I’m not going to say where you said it, but a third time I was like, I got to shut this down. No more Dr. Sanchez. That’s where it is. But my brother, I appreciate it. You know, I love you dearly. We’ve been back and forth for years with strategies, ideas bouncing back. And even when I made this transition, a lot of people don’t know. But, you know, at the early onset of this, you were one of the first people to call and say, I will always remember that and appreciate you for that. So, you know, publicly, I want to say thank you for that. And so on to the next question. So now my book, right? And I love you. I love Are you ready? I love how, you know, you said your text messages. I love it, my brother. But
Dr. Ray Sanchez
I reread it. That’s bad. Frame it.
Dr. Michael Conner
I love it. Thank you. Intense, you know, bold and unapologetic. Write A Guide to Transforming Schools and A-Z Stage of Education. I advocate for innovation. Right. That innovation is that input driver that will elevate excellence and equity and teacher learning organizations. It’s fundamental he made to force people to look at the education model differently. Where I’m going to use your words, it acknowledges the history at outset right? AC Stage of Education and the development and computation of the military model of the industrial model. But when we look at this right, with the need to change the core of the model, how do we now start to memorialize or how do you memorialize innovation as a primary right or excellence and equity in your district as a leader?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Well, when I think of innovation, to me it’s it’s this constant evolution of the. And that’s and
Dr. Michael Conner
I’m Dr. Sanchez, because that is the definition of innovation. Just repeat that one more time. I apologize.
Dr. Ray Sanchez
And, you know, I think it’s you know, I think it’s about an evolution of our work. And so we’re continuously, whether it’s in formal leadership meetings and our board meetings and in our spaces with our educators at the building level and with our community is continuously asking us that question. And if it’s not, then and then it’s incumbent upon us to make some changes. And change doesn’t necessarily have to be dramatic or it doesn’t mean we’re building new buildings or, you know, we’re going 1 to 1 in these you know, I’ll just refer to more of like the technical items, but could be more adaptive than our work. Right. And those are the chains of mindsets and beliefs that we’re, you know, grappling with sometimes. But it’s continuous and making sure that it’s part of your agenda on an ongoing basis. If we don’t innovate, I think we’re we’re generally doing a disservice to our children. So we may not be providing the best possible education for the students that we have the honor to serve, no matter what the location is, because it is an honor to serve children so and so. That dialog has to be continuous. It has to be part of the table on an ongoing basis, and that could be looked at through the lens of a reference of before you know, your data, your student voices and others to say it’s time for movement. And some of that, like you roughly just referenced a minute ago, it could be small, small changes. Those small changes can be so impactful in the lives of children and staff. And so it’s it’s ongoing spaces where there’s psychological safety to bring them up, that everyone has a seat at the table and providing those fresh ideas and know that all ideas, irrespective of your titles, should be honored. And thoughts are some of the where individuals have looked to, you know, sometimes superintendents were looked to for all the greatest and brightest ideas they don’t come from necessarily just superintendents. We got to provide the space for them, for our staff and the educators in our communities to share those ideas. And I’ve heard some really outstanding ideas from individuals that may not have the certification as a teacher and have really had positive impact on our students. I think back to efforts at this district took on prior to President Obama, you know giving us the charge around and became My Brother’s keeper. We had a program called Project Earthquake and that would came from a real it’s one of our videographers said we got to do something to better educate our black males in our in our school district. That idea lifted this district and really made concerted efforts on behalf of our of our young men. That didn’t come from the superintendent. It didn’t come from the building principal that came from someone that a moral imperative that says, I got a great idea, and we got out of his way and made sure that that just happened. And it did. And it happened really well. So I use as as a like a a small but I think impactful example of of innovation that happened, you know, on our behalf. But again, just noting the fact that it can happen anywhere and that’s making sure we have that space and also that psychological safety for everyone to be able to come to the table and share their ideas.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely and Dr. Sanchez, the rationale I had you repeat that definition of innovation is because each year just like what rigor when you know, we started looking at our examining tier one or even you know the multiple tiers have been the multi tier system or even to the level of direct disruption as traditional pedagogy is being deliver rigor where you had about 45, 50 different definitions of regard. And I number in a hypothetical sense, but when you talk about innovation, you start to see that emulation, the definition of rigor being, you know, having a variety of different meanings. Same thing for innovation, but innovation is the evolution of your models through a variety of different ideas. If you think about, you know, when we talk about it from the edge, apologize, the the business side space, right. And the evolution of emergent practices in business science, we get design thinking. And the first the first pillar, I should say, or the first frame within design thinking is what right customer centric ideas that we take from our customers to be able to generate prototype, or whether it be a minimal by a viable product. I’m using very technical terms, but bringing it back to the education sense. Yes, getting ideas from the crowd. Our constituents, our students, our families and even our stakeholders and giving them the space, as Dr. Sanchez stated, to elevate that innovation into this level of a creative output that’s going to impact students and families. Unbelievable about that. And this is another side buried. Before we get to the last question, because I really want to highlight on this that first principle design thinking, right, is empathy. And when you look at it from a customer centric lens, right, empathy, it we use it in a context or a contextual frame that we can talk about it, but how do we conceptualize it as a practice within design thinking and having that be an integral part within the actual redesign or the innovation or the evolution of the model? Briefly, Dr. Sanchez, how do you leverage that? First element of empathy is is hard for a lot of leaders to say, yeah, we can do that. But don’t how do we do that and incorporate that as a mindset shift?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Well, what I would share with you is that sometimes we go to the space of sympathy and sympathy. I would just generally say, I don’t need your sympathy, I need your empathy. Right? And really understanding the lived experiences of the individuals, whether it’s your staff and your students. Yeah, that’s your starting point. Quite honest and bring about the work that I you know, I may sound like a broken record, but the work isn’t that complex. In some cases it’s providing that space and making sure that this is your ongoing work, whether it’s in your meetings and that and the tenor and culture that you’re helping to create and providing that space for for everybody that’s for me, it’s that simple. But honestly, it and reiterating because I do want to distinguish this because you’re right about design thinking and the element of empathy. But I think there are times as educators that we lead to sympathy. And I think there is a clear distinction between I think sympathy is is deficit and and it’s moral and it’s perspectives. Empathy is not. And we need to kind of pause and remind ourselves, even in dialog that we might be having with others in Spanish. And I’ll just use I don’t need the policy to say in the abstract, back, back, back up, but to understand where I’m coming from and then work to create opportunities for me in my school and my learning set, that’s who I was as a child. You know, my first generation came from, you know, from some significant challenges. What I didn’t need, once again, is obviously to assimilate. I mean, I came in with assets and understanding and elevating those, but give me the opportunities that everyone has knowing my story.
Dr. Michael Conner
Yeah. Dr. Sanchez, thank you for providing that distinct shade, that categorical distinction between sympathy and empathy. My audience, please. This is a second. What a second answer you have to replay. You have to rewind. Play it again, because there are distinctions between sympathy and empathy. You brought back the comparison, Omar and Habermas or Dr. Sanchez, where is poverty? I’m sorry, Pedagogy of poverty versus the Pedagogy of prosperity. Right. And that clearly those two are distinctively different. Same thing when we talk about sympathy and empathy. Thank you for bringing that up. Very, very important. I could talk to you all day. Right. But I got to say last question. I don’t even want to in this conversation be the pragmatic brother. But last question. I know you got to go be superintendent. If he what three words do you want our audience to leave with regarding persistence in a rapidly, rapidly changing time? Right. Times are change. You know, there are many compelling factors impacting education today, but what three words would you want our audience or my audience to leave with? When we talk about persistence in the stage of education, when there’s this high level of reactivity or change and you could go beyond words because I’m going to do if that’s okay, I’m going to slightly edit the because it’s hard to say.
Dr. Ray Sanchez
I’ll use a phrase and in one case and maybe some words after,
Dr. Michael Conner
so I can say, let me really fast, could you a laugh at this? So I’m trying to switch up my approach or question six. So what is see now starting that? You know, I like to say iterate, right? I like to iterate. Now my question is structure. And you just came out, I did this deliberately with you. You came that way. I got words in a phrase, so I got to switch it up for my next segment. So I go on.
Dr. Ray Sanchez
I’m going to give you a I was doing it and I’m going to give you a heterogeneous is answer here. So just diverse. So one is patience with urgency. Yes. Right. So I think in this in this stage of persistence and and this need for rapid change, you have to be patient, but you have to work with urgency. Yeah. So and I guess that counts as three words in some ways, right? So if we want to use the whole phrase, but I, but I think there’s elements of that. You know, I would just just to elaborate a little bit. I’m not I’m not very patient at all because I just want I want to now and I want to now for for for everybody. But I have to be patient to remind ourselves. But the urgency doesn’t stop. That doesn’t mean that we’re not working hard. And to try to bring about the positive change, as you said, the other you know, we talked at length about it just a minute ago, but I had in my mind the word empathy. I think we can’t ignore that in our work. And the last one is and I would just that kind of relates to empathy. But I, I don’t want to lose this war of love that we don’t talk about. I you know, I’ve full disclosure, I’m a big fan of Mister Rogers. I grew up with Mister Rogers, and he had this favorite number, which was the number 143 that he’s familiar with the number now, please elaborate. So he stood behind this number, 143 is he he reminds us that it only takes one word to write the one letter to write the word I or letters to write the word love. And three letters to write the word you. Wow. And those messages resounds for me in terms of like when I’m we’re working on behalf of children and working on behalf of a community and working just to make our world and our space better. At the core, love is is necessary and his words resound. I grew up on Mister Rogers and I didn’t buy the red sweater, but it his words actually were really powerful. So, you know, for everyone that’s listening, 143 91 one letter for I or Letters for Love and three letters for you.
Dr. Michael Conner
A, you exceeded the word limit. But I think because, you know, I don’t care
Dr. Ray Sanchez
because phrases in one word, it’s
Dr. Michael Conner
exactly because patients were urgency. Yes. Yes. Right. Empathy, absolutely, but love people. We have to bring that back into education. We have to bring that back to education and the whole one word re. I love you back. Yes. Now I remember one, four, three. Yes, This was college days, right? I got up. But Dr. Sanchez, if I’m better as soup, I’m a leader or principal. If I’m an Aspire superintendent, how would I be able to reach you just to be able to pick your brain or questions I might have regarding something that I’m doing or implemented in my own district?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
You can follow me on Twitter. It’s awesome Soup and you can always reach out. You can reach to me and you can email me by my email. My work email can be found on our Web site. Happy to connect and you can call my office. I’m happy to connect with you. You say. You know, I heard the podcast wanted to chat with you for a little bit. I’m sure we’ll we’ll connect and to the extent that I can be helpful, I will. And that’s what we’re all here for. Help each other and get it, you know, grow and get better.
Dr. Michael Conner
Absolutely. And to our audience, participants out there, if you call Dr. Ray Sanchez, he will talk to you. If you email him, he will email you back. If he is busy at a meeting and you leave a message, he will call you back. That is my good friend. That is good leadership. That’s his leadership signature. Dr. Ray Sanchez, Dr. Sanchez, you survived Voices for Excellence, my brother. How you feeling?
Dr. Ray Sanchez
I got once one drip of sweat coming down here, but I’m okay. I really appreciate the opportunity. And I thank you, Michael, for all the great work you’re doing. I appreciate you. Right. And I can’t wait.
Dr. Michael Conner
I appreciate you, Ray. And I can’t wait. There is a Michael Conner sighting.
Dr. Ray Sanchez
Oh, it’s time and it’s coming.
Dr. Michael Conner
It’s coming. And everybody be afraid. And on that note, onward and upward, everybody. Have a great evening.
